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Why our economy is bad I'd like to preface a few things before I get started on my large rant. First off, I do not hate Ultima server. Second, I do not hate trading. Third, I do not hate the people who try to make a profit whilst trading. Fourth, the only thing I hate is the state of the economy and the people creating the problem. As a quick disclaimer: Please do not take this post as hate or shit posting. That's not what this is meant to be, this post is a collection of my thoughts about the state of the economy and the reason why it is the way it is. Please don't flame me because I'm pointing out what everybody else knows is true. Thanks. Now that the brief introduction disclaimers are out of the way, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Wyatt, I go by the alias Varista in most of the games I play, though my screen name on Ultima server is Auroboro. I joined the server for real In 2014. I've had more than 2 years playing here so I think I know a little bit on what I'm talking about. I've had my time to fully understand the mechanics of DT's and PD's here. I'm wanting to discuss the blatant white elephant in the room on this server that I know doesn't just bother me, but a whole lot of other people as well. This white elephant is the economy. I don't mean the real world economy, no, I mean our in game economy. The act of trading items or selling them for PD's and DT's. Let me just get right to the point. Our economy sucks. Really really bad. It didn't take long for me to realize how suck our economy was. At first I originally thought that DT's were a good thing but over time I slowly realized how bad they are for this game. Our rate for DT's to PD's are ~6.66 PD's for ~1 DT. So, usually, people end up selling about 5 DT's for 30 PD's or 35 PD's for some people thanks to rounding up. Regardless of this, the norm has been set in stone. 6.66 PD's for 1 DT and that doesn't really fluctuate or change. It was a good start creating that unchanging minimum I admit. Ultimately though it just ends up not really mattering. Call me predictable, but I'm going to use a pretty good example in this case. When you can look at all the other PSO servers; Argo, Crystal-Argo, Schthack, Jupiter, Genocide, Legits, Nova, Ephinea, Eden; all of these with the exception of Eden all have one single thing in common: You cannot donate to the server for in game currency that is worth more than PD's. And yes, you're probably going: “Well yeah, duh idiot, but we aren't every other server, this is Ultima, this is how we operate!” That excuse is old and played out. Telling me that “This is Ultima, we operate differently, so deal with it” is not a good excuse to have an economy primarily run by paying real world money. That, in it's entirety, is half of my point. This server's economy is primarily run by paying real world money. DT's are real world money. You want a good example of how this is? Go to any trade. Go find out what any real event item is worth in both DT's and PD's, and then try and buy that item for PD's. You might be able to sell or buy event items for PD's, but most items people won't even accept PD's. PD's are the game's currency and we don't even use it that much. Most of the items we buy are gotten through paying real money. And I get it, if it's your choice to pay real money to get your stuff then I can't stop you but that doesn't not contribute to the problem. I'm going to use this as an example: Dark weapons. I know that's a very extreme example, but it's a pretty common one. People don't even bother trying to trade dark weapon for other items anymore. If they do happen, they most likely happen in PM's where nobody else can see but the two participating. The majority of trading in this game or selling happens with DT's. Rarely ever do you find a B>DM or B>DF or a B>PB topic where it says “I will trade all these X items for a DF/DM/PB, post here”. Almost always you will see “I'm buying DM/DF/PB for 500 DT's, PM me for more details, don't ever post here or else I will report you.” and nobody ever hears of it. People don't even offer PD's as sweeteners anymore. You go to schthack right now into the trade section and auctioning section and you see topics littered with people offering PD's as both sweeteners and real primary offers to things, you wanna know why that is? Because their economy isn't littered with an item that's worth 6x the worth of 1 PD that you can buy for 1 dollar; they also don't have a hundred people buying those currencies. “Oh Auroboro how predictable using schthack as an example how cringe can you get” Yeah well here's the thing that really gets me: You say that, and you make fun of me for it, but no other server is stupid enough to create this kind of inflating garbage economy like we have and seem to be okay with it. But no, lets not acknowledge that, on a server wide scale, we have a hundred people buying DT's for real world money and our economy doesn't even use PD's anymore. You, yes you, you may be the one outlying example of some one that doesn't do that but the vast majority of us do. I myself am guilty of it. But honestly, that's only half of the problem. The other half is all those cheating scum bags that scam others by jacking up prices of items and profiting. You know who profits from jacking up prices of items that are rare and powerful? Only those who are rich enough to buy them in mass quantities and sell them in those same quantities. The same people who are rich enough and spend thousands of dollars for the DT's to horde all of the best stuff and sell them for extortionate amounts. But what's even worse are the scum bags who come on every single day and over price hundred of items simply because 1 rich guy overpaid for a few items. Let me break down Ultima's economy every month: >New guy joins server and pays a few hundred dollars for DT's to gear up. >New guy then makes sure he can get all the stuff he wants by overpaying for all the stuff he buys. >Everybody sees him overpaying and decides they want to get in a piece of the pie as well. >So then everybody that has those items (not literally everybody I'm just generalizing for the sake of speed) starts to massively overprice those items. >The economy goes to even more shit and nobody benefits except the people that are already rich. Do you see the trend here? A new player comes on the server every month and massively over pays for everything and these jerks come in and start to permanently sell these things for higher prices. What's even worse than that is that since our economy is revolved around real world money trading, it wouldn't be as big of a deal if they went up in price DT wise if you could buy them with PD's or other items, but you can't even do that; most people wont even accept PD's in big high end trades and that just defaults everybody to having to spend an extortionate amount of money to get anything they want. You know when I first bought my Cent/battle I overpaid by about 40 DT's in stuff? I didn't trade just DT's, I traded specifically items but I completely regret it now, because the only item that can prove this argument kind of wrong is Cent battle and it was 100 DT's value when I bought mine and now my Cent battle that I paid 140 DT's for is now worth 100% less down to 40 DT's maximum. But most items don't even do this. As long as there are people wanting items like this people will continue to over price things and scam people out of their money. I can't really do anything against it or shame you for wanting to make a profit but this is getting ludicrous. 500 dollars for a dark weapon? Lol, really? Even more than that for a Dark Bridge and even more than that for an STA. I mean come on guys, 500 dollars for anything is ridiculous let alone 100. The overall issue here is that you have a combination of both the economy being revolved around real world money, things being massively over priced all the time, and people taking advantage of this and being scummy by selling them for ridiculous prices. There's only a few people I can name off the top of my head that this kind of system benefits and that's SogeKing, Christian, Sabrina, and Night. I'm not even directly saying these people are the cause of this entire bull shit economic downfall but these four people are names I thought of off the top of my head that would benefit from this kind of system because they are stupidly rich. Am I stupidly rich? Absolutely not. Is this just me complaining that I can't afford every high end item I want? Absolutely not. This is a complaint about why we continue to let these people dictate the entire server's economy and why we cant seem to admit to ourselves and everybody around us that letting DT's be the primary source of buying and selling items in this game is bad. I love this game and I love this server, but I do not want to sit around for another year watching specific people manipulate new player ignorance and other such nonsense to profit by scamming people and creating an extremely inflated market. They're ruining trading for everybody. There could be a lot of fixes. I have personally thought of fixes myself, one of them being specifically for dark weapons we could make PGF on the donation list for a week, or make them drop significantly more often this Christmas event. Either of these spit-balled ideas would most likely drop the price of this item down significantly. I can see the people that have dark weapons not liking this idea because the price of their weapon drops down significantly but nobody here really loses anyways. Those who are rich, can still get richer, but they wont be outright scamming people to get rich anymore, and people like me, and my friends who play, don't have to sit around in an inflated economy scoffing at the sight of the “Will buy Dark X for 600 DT's, PM me please” topics that come up every friggin week. I also hear a lot of nonsense about why it's not on donation list is because Larva wants more money and stuff like that; imo that's all nonsense, I'm not going to pay attention to that or encourage that kind of talk but what I am encouraging is that we all look at our own server that we've built together here and recognize that we have a lot of cleaning up to do. There are ways we can fix out incredibly inflated economy without ruining everybody's experiences. I'm not asking for a witch hunt or a ban hunt, I want this to get better. As it stands right now, Our economy needs a lot of work. “The first step to solving any problem is recognizing that there is one.” Thank you for reading.

That entire post you made about the tinfoil that thing(although honestly I do find it kind of funny, especially as some people do think it's all some sick price raising conspiracy with larva at the top) Really add absolutely nothing. I don't care if you think you said something constructive before, because when you start outwardly flaming shit, when you apparently can't ready the whole post or understand the context of it. Because a couple weeks before pgf starts dropping is a REALLY weird time for someone to start up a gimmie pgf post don't you think? I just se you often start shit in posts, it continues on, it gets locked. I mean are you going to take part in the discussion or just shit on people for no apparent reason? Dude, you really gotta grow up man. How I am not right? you fucked up Sabs dark weapon buying post, now you are trying to do the same thing here. I mean you're gonna start shitting on some young kid? don't you have kids? go look after them instead of bitching on forums ffs

I wrote a lot more but deleted most of it. Here's my main thought: PDs ARE WORTHLESS 9 DAYS OUT OF 10 AT THIS POINT. When I first came here only 4 months ago I saw tons of people selling DTs for PDs at 6.6:1. Now it is rare to have (maybe) 1 person that sells 15 DTs for 99 or 105 PDs every few days, but other than that the PDs just pile up and they serve either to buy you some very cheap items (extra V502 because you're too lazy to trade it back and forth, 3 Seals because you started a new FO and it will take a while to get to 130 for Hylian, etc) or, at this point bc it's so hard to trade PDs for DTs, to add attribute. It's 120 PDs to add 35% (well, 119), so basically this would be like an 8:1 conversion rate. Personally there's no chance I'd spend 15 hard earned DTs to add attribute right now bc I need to accumulate more DTs to trade for items I want, or to finish adding hit to some items I already have, and getting PDs to just add attribute selling lower end items is easy. If someone is selling something for 5 DTs or more, I can just about guarantee you that if you offer them PDs they will say no, unless you are offering like 10:1 value. Not saying that in a negative way, right now I literally wouldn't even sell something for 15 PDs, I'd sell it for 2 DTs or say no thanks. I just have absolutely no use for PDs atm, and the same is true for a lot of people. When you think about it, it really makes no sense for PDs to have much value, because they serve 0 purpose in-game aside from adding specials to S-Ranks (barely matters), the 1-50 PD items from Paganini (matters even less), and to buy PS to add attribute (and as stated if we say 15 DTs = 99 PDs, using DTs is objectively better since it gets you 5% more, and you can spread it however you want) So this brings me to my conclusion about what I think is the most reasonable way to make PDs matter while still making it desirable for people to purchase DTs to get the server money. Change it to 15 DTs = 25% attribute (or even 20%, just like hit), to make it so that it is generally preferable to use PDs to buy a PS so that a player who wants to add attribute with cash money has to buy 15 DTs (or whatever amount the community settles on...20% is 80 PDs and 30% is 99) to buy 99 PDs from a player (which helps the in-game economy) to get 30% hit instead of 20-25%, and suddenly there will be 1 very meaningful thing you can do with PDs in-game that you wouldn't always rather do with DTs. I seriously think this is an absolute golden money idea. As far as new players coming in and donating and "overpaying" and then the prices going up sometimes...I don't begrudge anyone for trying to make the most they can out of their items, and I don't begrudge anyone for wanting to just fork over cash for items instead of waiting months for the event to grind for something nonstop and maybe get it. I think the donation system is great overall and I'm glad that people can enjoy the game whatever way they like here. Items getting more expensive can be a problem, but I really feel that this is a result of the economy being absolutely ruled by DTs while the original in-game currency has essentially no use. By giving players a reason to spend DTs on PDs I think you will see a lot more DTs spread around and PDs being consumed creating a much more lively economy where even new players that spend $0 can find things that both veterans or new players willing to donate will trade their DTs for. If you see that happen, I think there's a good chance you'll see the price of some items start to drop back down a bit too.

Yeah, definetely I should agree, this is definetely the best Anniversary Event we ever had in the past years, the rates for STA are fair (although I didn't found any yet ), and it is really noticeable the ammount that dropped this year increased; much more organized (now we actually have a end date for event). So I have to congrats the staff for this event. Psycho Bridge? Well I don't think that just making PGF all year round would solve the problem. It is like all the garbage in economy comes from only 3 weapons, which isn't true. I would be happy if PGF is year round but if it drops in a single or two spread events with a better rate that would work too. I think last year only few PGFs dropped, I mean, STA is just an armor, an extra thing, not an armor that you MUST have to play, there are other options too that also do a good job, but dark weapons on this game are unrivalized, isn't the main goal of everyone to get a dark weapon? Isn't this the only server where PGF is restricted to just one event? Years ago I traded a Centurion/Battle and 1 Photon Sphere for a Dark Meteor 50 stats, the price of PGF were around 60 DTs and everybody seemed to agree with that. I really don't understand how DWs suddenly became 10x the price it was 2 years ago. But that was already discussed here so I won't comment about that again. About taking down DTs from economy, would it really be a good idea? The way it works right now DTs are much easier to use than PDs. Well, with DTs you can exchange attributes in weapons to the ones you desire, can split %s through the areas you want, can add hit (although we have hit event), so how removing DTs would be a solution? How high end players would make a set of the weapons they like? Not saying that having such overpowered weapons are REALLY needed, but this server is buffed, most of the non event weapons unfortunately are like garbage here if they don't have crazy high hit and %s. Get a S-rank for example, the way s-ranks weapons works now, they barely can hit anything, they aren't buffed on this server, although they are rare and difficult to get. You will only want them for debuff specials, the other specials are totally worthless since you can have Type-Weapons that CAN have hit. You will never find Type-Weapons with %s, so you have to use DTs to get Hit on it or you wait a year for a Hit Event. Still, I think S-ranks should have been more valuable here. A Berserk Needle doesn't hit enemies in a satisfactory way or do really low damage, if it wasn't because the SNS glitch, J-Cutters would also be a totally worthless weapon. I don't have to say anything about Hell/Demon Needle, we have TypeSh/Shot that can have both specials AND hit. S-Rank Mechgun is easily replaceable by TypeME/Mechgun. Somehow we totally "destroyed" the vanilla weapons (s-ranks) to favor weapons that you must spend money to make it usable (Type Weapons). I just think we could have some improved vanilla weapons, so people wouldn't complain as much as they do now about not having such money to afford expensive things. We should give S-Ranks a chance too! Aren't us too dependant from dark weapons? We'll see, in my opinion although we had crazyness hapenning on Trades, the Events so far were really good, I don't have anything to complain, they were really good so far. I wish we could have some more mini-events, adding hit to some specific weapon, some guessing password event, where you earn some sphere in your weapons, get PDs, etc. Really, when there is no HH, it is noticeable the ammount of players that log off the game. The server should be more inviting than just having Happy Hours to compensate. I would agree of taking down Happy Hours and having easier rates, this way people could play at the time they really could play, they would not lose nights of sleep, there would be no more rush through items. The idea of Happy Hours would work if there were GMs spliting them for each timezone, which doesn't really work. At least where I live Happy Hours always happens 00:00 AM, 04:00 AM (when I should have been sleeping), and sometimes 16:00 PM (when I should go to school). So do you guys think the way Happy Hours works right now really benefit all players, or just some of them that live in the same timezone of the GM that activates it? Don't get me wrong, I really love this server, but there are many things that we can improve to make the server more inviting to new players and to treat well the veterans.

Or we remove the possibility of adding attributes with DTs so people stop making up some "exchange rates" out of nowhere

So I figured I would make a little guide on this mostly because I've come across a lot of people that don't know my trick for getting star atomizers, however there is more to this than just those. Here are a few useful quests that can help you save meseta and stress from the items you need that don't always pop up in the shop. Phantasmal world 4 episode 2 normal mode: This is probably the single most useful quest for getting these items. Aside from having vending machines that always have star atoms, trimates, monomates, and sol atomizers(although at a higher price than normal, but for monomates it's still pretty reasonable) all the episode two mini-bosses drop star atomizers. This is not only usually my one stop shop for filling up on all the things the shop doesn't always have, but also is an easy way to get your mag synchro up as you do the run. Between your inventory, character and common bank you can hold 30 of each of these items, which can get you through when the shops don't have them for you. If you regularly use star atomizers because you are a cast or because you like to keep your mag synchro up this quest will save you a lot of meseta. Power Plant Plight episode 2 normal mode: This is by far the best and fastest way to get star atomizers as a group, especially on individual drops you can fill up and entire party of people in the first couple of rooms. It is not available if you are alone(although you can dual log) and you can't pipe out to take them to the bank, if you and some others need to fill up your star atomizers this will get it done for free in just a few easy minutes. I mean this quest is almost entirely episode two minibosses, almost everything here drops star atomizers at a high rate. TTF ultima episode 1 normal mode: This is a really good spot for filling up sol atomizers and trimates. I noticed it from material hunting and have used it since then to quickly fill my banks up for those times when the shop doesn't want to cooperate. In the first room the gigoboomas drop sol atomizers and in the second room the hildebears, there is plenty of each but may still take a couple runs to fill up completely. This one isn't exactly the greatest but I will still use it if all I need is sol atomizers, it is free afterall. Sorry in advance that I don't know a really good way to get free trifluids however if someone out there has a way I am sure many of the people on this server that play force will thank you for it, just being a cast all the time it's never something I've paid much attention to. Hope this can help some people out

So... I have been toying with the idea of new emoticons (I mean, more). So basically I'm considering adding some more categories like for example, from this site. There are too many categories so, could I get some suggestions in the posts first, then we make it a poll? Please, only suggest from the area on the right that says categories. Or if you have any other website (of emoticons) in mind suggest it too so I can look at them. At the end I might grab like 3 most voted categories and add them to the forum.

i understand where both sides are coming from but lets be honest u can only farm the item for 4 weeks then u have to wait 300+ days to farm it again isnt it obvious that the prices for said items would be pretty dam high?

A lot of people use the excuse "it's simple supply and demand" That only really makes sense when you have 1 unchanging currency and everybody only uses that one currency. In real life, we don't have a currency that's worth six times that of a dollar bill that you can buy, for something that is the same value as a dollar bill. Here's what I think a lot of people don't seem to get or want to recognize: People will sell things for extortionate amounts to newbie players just like Saith said because they believe they can capitalize on the arrogance of those players. Bad stuff right? But what's even worse is that when they succeed, they just up and do it for everybody else. Instead of selling their blank Lindcray for a measly 5 DT's, to a new player, they sell it for 15 DT's, and then, since they got away with it, they continue to sell blank Lindcray's for 15 DT's to everybody; including the ones that know that a blank Lindcray is not worth 15 DT's (this example didn't happen, I'm just giving out a little example off the top of my head to explain it). But the majority of the people know that if a blank Lindcray isn't worth 15 DT's, that doesn't actually make any difference because the people who are in control are the ones who are selling the items, not buying. If I wanted to buy a Yunchang from RRR and a blank one is worth about 2-3 PD's, but he's selling his for 30, I cant do anything about that. On top of that, People aren't fucking retarded. People aren't going to just sell any item willy nilly to people that aren't even rare for insane prices. The people that over price their stuff are smart. They take a look at an item and they figure out how hard it would be to get that item and then they look at how many people actually might have it, and then they adjust prices accordingly. How hard is it to get Ultima's Engine? Relatively difficult because it's an event only drop from bosses, also because during that event, nobody is going to be hunting for that item anyways because STA is out and everybody wants that. So these people know that Ultima's Engine wont be hunted for very much and not many people will have it, so an item that is only worth (as an example I don't know what it's actually priced) about 10 DT's is now being jacked up to 30 DT's because some jack ass hunted it and nobody else has one. That's not supply and demand, that's scamming people. Just you watch, now that I mentioned this, it'll probably happen. You'll start seeing some one buying Ultima's Engine for 50 DT's or some shit. Watch it happen. Anyways, the point of this thread entirely was to raise awareness to the undying issue of inflation. It's not just inflation of dark weapons, but of everything. I know I used dark weapons and STA as an example primarily a lot but really, I was positive I said this in the original post, but I'll say it again in big bold letters for those who don't actually read what I say and only skim it, This is not a gigantic "gimme PGF" thread. This is a thread about our dying economy. Do not pollute this thread with your whiny "I dont have a pgf yet lower prices just for ME" crap. Again, I want PGF or dark weapon prices to go down just as much as the next poor ass idiot but I'm not revolving this thread around "lower price so I can buy dark weapons please". Stick to the topic, this is about trying to fix the DT issue. Donation Tickets are a cancer and they need to be fixed up or removed. Lets keep it to that topic and not battling over just dark weapon prices.

I like pizza with my pizza.

Note: this is not all specifically directed at you magictrick, but at everyone in general, your quote here just has some good relevance to segwey off of. ... yea that's bullshit. There were plenty of people that sold thousands of other mats at 10:1 at the same time and they still didn't change their price anyway (and actually arrogantly tried to buy all of their competitors supply). The only reason prices are high is because people get greedy when they see someone get alot for their item and they think they can find some ignorant newbie to overcharge too. People literally tried to triple the price of dark weapons overnight. In a not even 24hour period, people tried to argue that dark weapons went from 100-150dt to 300dt to 500dt. It had nothing to do with anything like supply/demand or anything like that. All that happened was people got greedy and tried to push the price up over 6-12hours. People tried to do the same with PoST, literally 1 person purposely overpays a lot, states they are overpaying and willing to do so, and everyone tries to immediately overnight triple the price because they think they can find someone else to rip off too. At least that bubble finally burst after easter event came and people realized how easy of a drop rate it actually is. Y'all have nobody to blame but yourselves. It doesn't help anybody to price check things at what some greedy scumbag may decide to charge for an item. People have to actually speak up against charging greedy prices far above relative expected values, and educate new and existing members when they are misguided about items. Even now I see people trying to buy and sell naka's cards for exorbitant amounts, which I want to point out are ridiculously easy drop; they are only a 1/12.8 so that ANYONE can go and collect 3 of them extremely easily. Getting 3 is only about 2/3rds of the rate of Red Ring, yet people are still trying to sell 3 for 20dt (during event no less). This isn't the sort of thing that gets solved by a single magical solution from the staff mandating 'reasonableness'; it's not an issue of currency or rules or the system(as any veteran can tell you), the core issue is a lack of community involvement (and often a willing participation in unsavory behavior such as inflating prices, because they think they can get rich quick too. The reality is that you probably aren't going to be winnning the 'i got to rip off some ignorant newbie' lottery). The only way to combat greed is to actually put your collective feet down and stand up to it.

Isn't the real issue in this story that no one mentioned DB/PB ? Why is Dark Bridge so much of a garbage compared to DF and DM ? So much inferior that an upgrade was needed for that item ! Upgrade that is not even good enough to rivalise with DF or DM. Also am I off topic ? I heard some "reworking" words out of nowhere so I'll assume am good Let's talk about broken economy (in a off topic spoiler of course)

I gave this guy everything he owns, don't listen to him /s

This. From very early on I've always thought that we should limit the amount people should donate. There's several people on this server who refuse to hunt and just donate for everything, which in my opinion kills a good half of this game. It's not that hard to get decent gear either. It might be time-consuming, yes, but not hard. I've donated less than $50 and my RAs are geared to the brim, excluding DM, so it's definitely possible to get great gear without donating your whole wallet.

That would be horrible unless PDs dropped more like in other servers (where they are easier to farm). There should be an easy way to get attributes on weapons. Currently it's easiest just to donate. I'd far rather see: A huge limitation on donation trading. I'm not necessarily saying disable it altogether, but surely no more mass donation ticket trading. This just fucks up the value of every other item in game for trades. It's crazy that people just want money, not hard earned items. This should not happen. I've been saying this for a while. Increase the chance of finding a PD in the DAR so it's possible to sphere items legitimately and without cheating by spending money. I feel that donations should be limited to thanking the ultima server and wanting to keep the lights on. It has turned into bragging rights. People come in and don't even hunt, but have every item in the game from trading donation tickets. There should not be such an unfair advantage just because someone can afford to donate an insane amount of money to feel superior. We have allowed for in-game redemption of items to add hit before. It should be entirely possible to get the same loot regardless of whether you donate. It becomes far more difficult when no one will trade big items without trading for donation tickets. Frankly the simplest solution to the problem is a full on ban for adding hit with donation tickets. That's all people trade it for typically.

DAT HUCASEAL BOOOTY

500 dts for an in game item , NEVER, thats more expensive than add ons for modern ps4 and xbox games , matter a fact more expensive than a brand new Ps4 or xbox

Ayy, you finally found mine! Now you only need one more for yourself and you'll be totally set for the event

TL;DR Gimme PGF plz You want a tinfoil hat with that pgf?

obligatory "grr prices wahhhh" response Good luck though, thats a good trade

Thank you krisjanis@vanderbilt.somethinglongname.edu. I remember that 40dts post like it was yesterday. But for real, damn near everyone has oversold something at some point to some n00b. Don't hate the player, hate the game. This wouldn't happen if donations and events were done away with. Its really that simple. If no ones gonna start a petition and send it to Larva, I don't know what the point of this thread is.

I don't think that would be a solution to what is being discussed in this topic, that would be a solution only to " I want a dark weapon and cannot get one" which isn't too much of a problem, really, so I'm slowly starting to see this topic as one more of that "gimme pgf". Anyway, it has been asked before, and probably would be a good thing to have it more often but we'll have to see... as many are aware we have been slowly working stuff out... like the current anniversary event and the past halloween, if someone say these are not one of the best we have had, go het me the hammer... so gotta be patient and see what comes up.

It's simple supply and demand folks. More buyers (demand) results in higher priced items while more sellers (supply) results in lower priced items. You can't (no one can) blame this on the users of the economy. Sellers are just looking to get a fair price for their items. And buyers want to have the item. The question is: what is a fair price? What is the buyer prepared to pay? Obviously the majority of the people think that 300-500dts is not a fair price for dark weapons so something needs to be done. But because of the limited supply and the insane demand for dark weapons this is simply what the price is at this point. But that's not up to the users to fix. It's not our fault anyway that the item is so rare. (fyi: I paid 350dts of my hard earned dts for my dark flow)

Events or donate for yourself. I don't think someone should donate $500 to mass trade money for everyone to have hit added. That's what's killing the server economy. Saith has great gear and never has donated. All high hit weapons are from hit mini events. They aren't frequent, but Cyane just did one like in September. Frankly I'd be fine to do more of these mini events and just remove hit from the donation table. This would incentivize trading and discourage mass money trades while helping everyone to gain hit on their gear.

I feel like this is the billionth time that someone has posted about prices. Here's my take. So long as people can donate for stuff, things will never change. Take it up with the big man and see if he'll eliminate donations. Good luck.

S>Max DM for 6,000pds don't pm or post.

yeah 500 dt's + for a dark weapon/sta is ridiculous, but i have no idea how we would fix it. You cant really tell people not to charge a certain amount for shit, and nobody wants to sell a dark weapon for half the price just to feel like they are giving the little guys a chance. I remember last year when i started saving up DT's for a DM, the price went up faster than i could get DT's. it got to the point where i just said fudge it... last year after xmas was when dark weapons sky rocketed in price.

Oh yeah!? Well you're a....YOU'RE A....GREAT PERSON! TAKE THAT!!

You little rascal! also gratz moid kupz

Hype for the Nostalrius/Elysium WoW launch! Anyone here plan on joining?

dw > everyone

Aww this is soooo cute! I love PSO weddings! Congratulations you two!

^^^ never seems to have anything constructive to add and no I don't mean you rablasterx dw

People throw out the word "scamming" way too often. How is anyone a "scammer" for selling an item that is rare for a price you don't agree with? I thought the people who hold the items determine the price. If theres only 1 Engine up for sale on the entire server,(which is actually very likely, who hunted that crap?) then how can you hold it against the guy that decides to sell it for 30, 40, 50 dts? No one has a say but him. He didn't "scam" anyone. He's being upfront with the price and whoever buys it, got exactly what they wanted. It can only be a scam if there was a set amount that could never change...which there isn't. lololololololo

You could always read what I said and not look like a giant tool. But people cant do that here. It's not in their nature. When some one threatens their ability to make profit on a video game where other people are involved you people always get super defensive.

S>Red Sword 10hit,Ultima Reaper,Millie Mateaux,Evil Curst 50hit,megid lvl26 ,Shifa lvl 30.Twinkle star,godrig's cloak.Jellen lvl 20

It won't change because all the people who have obtained end game items at their current price either through trading or donating will not want to see their resell value drop significantly. The cycle will continue. Personally I'm not too bothered about owning dark weapons but I'll certainly hunt for pgf a bit during the event. At the end of the day buy something if you want. If you think it's too pricey then don't bother. No one is ever forcing you to.

this need to change asap ... way to many greedy people getting rich on others... and also why is DM worth more than actual real gun ... lol what the hell

Good luck bro

Yea, for an id change and a mat reset. I have never used either dts to add hit or stats to a weapon, and haven't used pds on weapons outside of minievents (i.e. never sphered in gallon's shop, haven't even bothered to do the option to unlock it). And yet, even without that I have many sphered weapons (or even just extra % over 50), and high hit gear, and several hundred dts and pds to my name. I barely even trade really either. The thing is, nobody NEEDS 80hit% on their gear really. You can use 0hit gear and still hit things in ep2, just try taking a 0hit sh/shot with hell on a racast into seabed and you will hell a ton even without doing any sn glitching. While hit does increase your ata obviously, the myth that you need to donate money and you need way more than 40-50% to play in ep2 is utter bollocks.

I feel like half of you are missing the point, while all great ideas, larva gets donation to help keep the server alive and also pocket money. There is 0 delusions to that, so removing incentive to get pocket money as a "thank you" for running the server is not going to stop, nor should it, period. Call me empathetic, but put yourself in his shoes. Even though I said it before, would you honestly take away the DT system aka take away YOUR pocket money? No, you wouldn't. And anyone who says so is either beyond rich or lying. So the removal of incentives to donate, removing DTs, won't happen unless by some crazy scenario where he feels he doesn't care for the money anymore. It's NOT unfair that he gets donations for the server for DTs, it's just how this partic server is, and like others commented about other servers those are free for you to go too since they don't do DTs if you hate the DT system. So I implore you to stop with the get rid of or alter the DT system, 99% chance it won't change. The bubble happened, and now PDs are worth an all time low. It happens in the real world too all the time. Wait for christmas to be over before you get all your panties in a bunch. Cent/battles were going for 70-80 dts for some reason before summer event, then bam they were going for 30 dts and now 40-45, the price they were a year ago. STA dropped a good amount this year to those who hard hunted it, and now people won't want it as much because it's not as super rare where the same 3-5 people circle jerk it around raising prices. I have my suspicions that it will happen to PGF and dark weps, will it be fix to where it totally used to be? Probably not, but it most likely wont be this 500+ crazyness.

I was actually was referring to that

I always felt like the ultimate goal of donating (and call me crazy here) was to support the server in a meaningful way by keeping it alive rather than giving people mass wealth for spending $50. If I was to change the donating for hit thing, I'd without a doubt limit it and start giving out hit events more often. A hit event every month would solve this, make it impossible to add hit to weapons with DT's, and then limit the amount of DT's you can spend in 1 month to a certain amount. Nothing over 100? Or, here's a bolder idea: We could just scrap DT's entirely and then give out some better, maybe more desirable effects to donating, like account wide exp buffs for a month, increased DAR rate for your team, etc? Maybe you don't have the technology to give certain accounts higher exp rates, but honestly, to me, if I had to chose, I'd much rather just get rid of DT's entirely and revert back to the original currency.

Then how would you add hit at all? Just said you used to do something in the past, then suggest full on ban for adding hit with no real solution to it. This server NEEDS hit because of the buff to monsters, would you disable the buffs and make the game easy mode? Would you be willing to make a full on list of what items can be traded for hit and fully enforce it? Would you allow hit to be added with PDs? As you said it dts are basically for hit, so what would dts be for, for those who have saved a mass amount, literally worthless? There are far far easier solutions than creating super complicated situations where backlash could lead to a lot of people leaving the server. The solutions have been said 100's of times and larva has said no (drops year round/add it back to donation list). Telling me that all the dts I have are useless after I just traded good items for it would probably make me leave.

Dudes on some servers where they have a black market you can buy PGF for like 20-30 bucks. When did this server turn out to be 300-500bucks. Also seen some TJS going for like 2bucks clean. Here they were 50. And that was only sjs. Luckily like some people will say "you aren't obligated to donate if you don't want to" well that is entirely true. You're not, but due to some enhacements in monsters stats you are pretty much forced to get dts to get hit on weapons. EP2 Is the real problem here if you ask me

lol basically thought process would be "stop accepting free money from players who choose to give it to me in exhange for in game stuff" or "make the game economy decent for a game i dont play". every single one of you will chose the former if you were server admin, hands down. nothing is going to change. we all know who was the cause of inflation in january, playing pretend that you dont know wont change it.

I don't think this is as big of a problem as you say. At the very worst you can spend PDs sphering weapons, which makes them worth about 1/7.7 of a DT. There's also special events throughout the year that you can only spend PDs on. There is an issue with dark weapons, created by the fact that DM and DF are basically unrivaled and both are only available a small fraction of the year. They should really be available all-year, albeit at a fairly difficult rate and maybe for a very limited number of IDs (viridia could really use a boost...)

Mmm just question, I don't recall SogeKing or Sabrina being "rich and abuse by taking advantage of the system". If anything I thought SogeKing hunts for stuff and Sabrina is victim of the system too. Are there episodes that happened in the past or something? D:

Happy Birthday