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49 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you wanna consider Ultima?

    • As a grind-friendly experience balanced between original PSOBB concepts and new ones.
    • As a highly modded experience fitting the modern RPGs standards with a fast progression.
    • As an old school challenging experience revamped with useful features to keep a classic PSOBB alive.


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lock it for hucast or don't change it, doesn't matter either way honestly

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12 minutes ago, Noob Saibot said:

This is a really long post. Don't even bother reading my post if you are not willing to hear constructive arguments.
 

Ultima Server was never about balacing the game, and it will never be.

  • We give every class even more status boost (+100 ATP, +100 DFP, +100 MST, +10 ATA and +30 EVP). Material usage was never increased to balance this. That means what was unbalanced, become even more unbalanced;
  • Enemies were buffed on Ultimate difficult. They have more EVP, which means that commons weapons needs more ATA to land their attacks than on other servers. There are no ways to increase hit on weapons other than using Donation Tickets or waiting one or two years for a Hit Event to happen;
    Monster on Ultimate got:
    more ATP -  monsters lands more powerful attacks
    more DFP - our attacks deals less damage
    more ATA - monsters lands more accurate attacks
    more EVP - monsters evades much more, means attacks have more chances to miss
    more LCK - monsters lands more critical attacks
  • Almost everyone starts playing as Ranger because they have a much better growth performance than any other type of class. You can kill literally every monster before they have a chance to land an attack on you. This server is dominated by Rangers, and for that reason, we don't have many skilled Hunters or Forces playing here. It is much easier to spam DM and Hell Shots than actually learning how to position yourself correctly or use optimal weapon choices for spawns;
  • Hunters and Forces, on the other side, have a really bad growth performance, unless you are decently geared already. Because the material usage was never increased, they need to use Status Units to reach max stats, or switch mags depending on your play style (melee or support). Means that useful units like Proof of Sword Saint, Cure units, PB/Increase have a very limited usage, unless you sacrifice the use of something else;
  • Because the Ultimate mode was buffed to the point casting techniques barely does damage and are more harmful than beneficial (due to the Damage Cancel), Forces here become Hunters or Rangers literally. Forces have more weapon choices than Hunters or Rangers together, whereas they don't shine on what they were supposed to: cast strong techniques and give optimal support for other classes;

 

I think that conversation with the desire to balance classes and gameplay because Serene Swan is "too broken" is kinda hypocritical. There are much more important things to care about, instead of fighting for a single target weapon nerf. 

People say Serene Swan should be exclusive to HUmar... but no one plays HUmar. Will people bother to play HUmar if it becomes a weapon exclusive to this class? Honestly, I don't think so.

It is a class that could really benefit from having SD15 at least or 20; could benefit from Lindcray... but that was strictly taken from HUmar for whatever reason. They only have access to Macho Blades, which casts SD level 7 only.
HUnewearl is just much better than HUmar on every instance. Lets stop being hypocritical. "No one cares about HUmar because HUcast exists and cast traps".
Interesting enough, Serene Swan is useable by HUmars... what are people waiting for to make their first HUmar then? 🤔

About Serene Swan...

I don't remember a single time the Devil special on Serene Swan landed on a Episode II mob using HUcast, and considering casts already have a penalty using HP cutting special, the low ATA of the weapon and its special, a reduced version of Demon's, I don't think the special on the weapon is harmful. It is almost close to an useless special on casts.

My idea was to give it a Spirit special for some kind of "balance" in terms of a damage output of a HUcast vs other classes. When I suggested status, it was a handgun range weapon, just like the Last Swan we already know, but instead, have more ATP than it currently have (my idea was 200~250 ATP).

We should admit, HUcast will be the strongest class regardless of which weapons you give to other classes. Unless a status/material usage balance is done on Ultima, that won't change.

That video was shown during the weapon moderation, on first days of event release, and there was a staff agreement to not change the weapon status and keep it as it is. Larva himself said he didn't found the Serene Swan that "game breaking" as some have stated.

Want me to be honest? I don't think the outcome of the weapon is that bad as people say either.

For anyone who is willing to make a serious comparison, here are some weapons status I collected from Vanilla PSOBB, 2014 SCHTHack and Ultima:

  Master Raven vs L&K38 Combat vs Last Swan vs Serene Swan (Reveal hidden contents)

 

Master Raven
Vanilla/Ultima PSOBB: +380 ATP, +52 ATA (150 ATA req), +5 MST, can be grinded to +9, combo locked.
2014 SCHTHack: +118 ATP, +42 ATA (150 ATA req), +5 MST, can be grinded to +9, combo unlocked.
Lord's special
Only males can use Master Raven.
Fires 9 bullets per combo.

L&K38 Combat
Vanilla/Ultima PSOBB: +250 ATP, +40 ATA (145 ATA req), -30 EVP, can be grinded to +25, combo locked.
2014 SCHTHack: +80 ATP,  0 ATA (145 ATA req), -30 EVP, no grind, combo unlocked.
Burning special
All classes can use L&K38 Combat.
Fires 15 bullets per combo.

Last Swan
+90 ATP, +32 ATA (150 ATA req), +5 MST, can be grinded to +9. 
Lord's special
Only females can use Last Swan.
Fires 9 bullets per combo.

Serene Swan
175 ATP, 37 ATA (170 ATA req), can be grinded to +80. 
Devil's special
All classes can use Serene Swan.
Fires 12 bullets per combo.

*ATP already counts the grinders

 


What SCHThack did to compensate/balance the specified weapons to make them useable but at the same time, counter the possible game breaking problems?
They combo unlocked said weapons and nerfed their ATP and ATA.

But differently from Ultima, they never touched monster status, which was the case here. So basically, saying the Serene Swn should be nerfed to the ground as SCHT did to their counterparts would be inaccurate, Ultima is a completely different server.

Now, if we stop to think, isn't it  kinda disrespectful at this point to do anything on Serene Swan regarding nerfs, for those who invested money or photon spheres on it and also, would probably ruin the purpose of hunting the said weapon? What is it going to be now? Just a bettered Serene Swan? Another Serene Swan useable by females?
Should take careful choices before doing anything in my opinion.

Ultima ruined Blood Sword (because Hundred Souls exist) and Water Gun (because it was nerfed to the point it isn't as useful as it was before), so I don't want to see the same thing happening to Serene Swan. The latest 10th Anniversary Items were a total failure, people were complaining because of how bad was their outcome. I'm surprised people are now complaining because Serene Swan is "too good" for the Hunters...

Anyways I'm sure many would be disappointed to a potential high-end replacement for Charge/Berserk Rayguns for Hunters being buried.

So yeah, stop to think Ultima should have the same assets as SCHT, Ephinea, or Destiny. That is the fun part of playing here, having a few "overpowered" weapons.

tl;dr I'm against any nerf.

Very well said. My thoughts exactly. 
 

 

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I'm glad I saved my humar when I erased all non-ranger classes. I was waiting for a sswan to come.

for real, so many things that can improve and all are arguing about a good new but not so good weapon.

in my opinion, the only thing that is ruining the server is just the fact that PGF and other rare weapons are not on the donation list, this is what destabilizes the server, a dark weapon cost more than 400DT?!?! that is what is wrong, everything else is workable

Edited by Ricardo Gomes
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There's several things that stop Ultima from being the best that it could be. Things like:

 

Boosted EVP looks like a blatant cash grab for more donations

Admin is hardly around, which means events can start weeks late/end weeks late.

PGF is only available one month out of a year.

Frequent abusers of the forum go unpunished/unbanned.

 

Honestly I think OP weapons like SS, Unlocked DM, etc. aren't going to break/kill Ultima. Nerfing a very usable weapon won't help, especially when HUcaseal really needed something like it. Although, I think there's a difference between having OP weapons and just dumb stuff like combo-unlocked Snow Queen or rifle range Arrest Needle(kind of exists as STARs needle but only mio can use) or shields that let humans use traps. Removing the challenge from the game with obscenely OP items also removes the fun for most.

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8 minutes ago, mudkipzjm said:

There's several things that stop Ultima from being the best that it could be. Things like:

 

Boosted EVP looks like a blatant cash grab for more donations

Admin is hardly around, which means events can start weeks late/end weeks late.

PGF is only available one month out of a year.

Frequent abusers of the forum go unpunished/unbanned.

 

Honestly I think OP weapons like SS, Unlocked DM, etc. aren't going to break/kill Ultima. Nerfing a very usable weapon won't help, especially when HUcaseal really needed something like it. Although, I think there's a difference between having OP weapons and just dumb stuff like combo-unlocked Snow Queen or rifle range Arrest Needle(kind of exists as STARs needle but only mio can use) or shields that let humans use traps. Removing the challenge from the game with obscenely OP items also removes the fun for most.

 

I agree with some of those things .

especially the part about the forums . People should at the very least get warnings for saying things that are inappropriately weird even if they’re just jokes like saying sexual jokes about themselves and their dads cause that’s just disgusting and weird af rather than trip about someone using modern day slang .

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Not to sound negative but why are we still talking about this weapon Serene Swan? I mean come on its a new weapon and we need to test it out and enjoy it. So what if the weapon not balanced. Its some balanced weapons on here and some people not even skilled with it. So what if it does a lot of damage and do like 3-4 shots oh well. Be grateful that they even took the time to give us a new weapon that we can hunt and have fun adding hit, testing it out, etc. I can't believe people are still talking about this! I'm usually not the person to comment and make a fuss about things I just play this game to have fun with friends and have fun hunting these items on the Ultima server. I'm tired of hearing about it. If it bother ya'll that much then do something about it or otherwise just be grateful about getting new content on this server and have fun hunting it. I don't wanna offend and make anyone mad but this is just my opinion and I usually don't vent like this but c'mon guys we gotta do better and be thankful. 

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19 minutes ago, Stark 1 said:

 

I agree with some of those things .

especially the part about the forums . People should at the very least get warnings for saying things that are inappropriately weird even if they’re just jokes like saying sexual jokes about themselves and their dads cause that’s just disgusting and weird af rather than trip about someone using modern day slang .

I don't understand what you mean.

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Combo lock DW based on time. Limit Cast SD level to 30 max even with PB stack. Allow PGF to drop all year at like 1/2000 rate all IDs. Keep SS as is its fine. We are all so concerned with what breaks the game when the fact is we are all so well geared and have grinded so long everything is relatively easy. If it's hard it's only cause the game is basically glorified 1 hit KO dodgeball in the endgame. Smile folks the sun will shine. 

Edited by C01D1

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1 hour ago, C01D1 said:

We are all so concerned with what breaks the game when the fact is we are all so well geared and have grinded so long everything is relatively easy.

Beg your pardon? Speak for your own generation. Still working on a 0/x/x/0/x Panzer Faust, let alone my first Dark Weapon or STA or costume. :V

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29 minutes ago, Kikori said:

Beg your pardon? Speak for your own generation. Still working on a 0/x/x/0/x Panzer Faust, let alone my first Dark Weapon or STA or costume. :V

Preach, brother.

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52 minutes ago, Kikori said:

Beg your pardon? Speak for your own generation. Still working on a 0/x/x/0/x Panzer Faust, let alone my first Dark Weapon or STA or costume. :V

This. Kind sucks for those of us that have been here a couple of years to be working on this. No matter how much you "grind" RNG can be brutal here since the game-breaking weapons and armor are huntable once a year with terrible drop rates whilst being insanely overpriced.

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The only thing I have always say is .., Why a FO can use a rifle range weapon so powerful? to me is just mind blowing. If it were for me I would change the class usage since day 0. Rangers should be the one using long range weapons.  That would be probably the only change ill suggest.

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8 minutes ago, Larva said:

The only thing I have always say is .., Why a FO can use a rifle range weapon so powerful? to me is just mind blowing. If it were for me I would change the class usage since day 0. Rangers should be the one using long range weapons.  That would be probably the only change ill suggest.

FOs were able to use a rifle range weapon since the old days (bringers rifle) 😜

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11 minutes ago, Stark 1 said:

FOs were able to use a rifle range weapon since the old days (bringers rifle) 😜

yeah but not with that kind of damage... >.>

seriously the weapon needs to be more class base rather than usable by all. It's the only thing ill suggest. Or remove the rifle range.

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1 hour ago, Larva said:

The only thing I have always say is .., Why a FO can use a rifle range weapon so powerful? to me is just mind blowing. If it were for me I would change the class usage since day 0. Rangers should be the one using long range weapons.  That would be probably the only change ill suggest.

The same way hunters or forces shouldn't be using shots (example, crush cannon).

With all respect, i don't think that's an accurate or correct argument, in my opinion. I don't think that this server has a philosophy of being purist with the class concepts and their general perks. You guys never restricted yourselves from allowing weapons that aren't supposed to be on forces or hunters, why is the SS now a problem? If the server had a general concept and a philosophy to follow when developing weapons, then i would agree with that argue, but it's not the case. For example, the staff made Lindcray, which following your reasoning, shouldn't exist but no one ever cared about changing it or discussing possible changes and now why in the world SS is mind blowing now?

I mean, it's a valid point, i won't argue that maybe SS shouldn't have rifle range or shouldn't be usable by FOs or hunters. The problem with most of this stuff is consistency of the leadership in adressing these topics. If you want to change SS, change it. If people cry that it was changed, well that's their problem we can't please everyone, but you have to have a philosophy and know what you want for your server and make things happen. I can't speak for everyone, but i'm tired of all this thing "ah shouldn't be like this, should be like that" and not making stuff happen or the leadership never taking decisions only considering what they think it's right, making an endless and non productive discussing (as it has been happening until today, since the weapon came out). Just make things happen and take a decision, the server is yours, the community has the right to express their opinion, but ultimately the decision is always your. If you don't agree with some of the weapons perks, or the weapon is not what you want for your server and you think it's better to change it, change it.

Just be consistent on things and make things happen. It's better to say "we will change the weapon" and change it, than  saying one day that the weapon is going to be changed and then "ahh we probably won't change it for now, maybe in the future dunno", just because community pressured to not change it.

And for the last note, if it's to be consistent with the server's philosophy, SS should not be changed. Also if it is to be changed, it should be changed already. The later the worst, the more people will spend DTs on the weapon, the more people will get frustrated.

Edited by jezbuz
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