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49 members have voted

  1. 1. How do you wanna consider Ultima?

    • As a grind-friendly experience balanced between original PSOBB concepts and new ones.
    • As a highly modded experience fitting the modern RPGs standards with a fast progression.
    • As an old school challenging experience revamped with useful features to keep a classic PSOBB alive.


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Nerfing Serene Swan in any way is a horrible idea especially if it's the range.
It's good to have alternative weapons to use, because no weapon is for everybody.
I remember back in the day in Schserv there was a dude named Choobs who only used L&K38 Combat as Knuckles, because it was his favorite, and how he wanted to experience PSO. I still remember that dude, and how he chose to play the game when I talk about L&K38 Combat. It was his weapon of choice. 
I request that L&K38 Combat be combo unlocked in memory of Choobs.

I think we should consider that not everybody likes to use the same weapons that people generally use for intense situations.
For example if L&K38 Combat gets combo unlocked, there is a speed difference between the three weapons Psycho Ravens, Serene Swan, and L&K38 Combat.
The animation for the L&K38 Combat makes it the slowest, but it could still be preferred by many users for whatever reason.
The same can be said about the Serene Swan, and Psycho Raven which are much faster guns. 

I think there should be good alternatives available for users.
Not only bad alternatives such as the ones we all know and ignore.

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14 hours ago, Harvest said:

I'd point out a post on page one of this thread got edited due to language, and that was considerably worse than mud's post, which was deleted.

 

12 hours ago, C01D1 said:

Honestly at this point people need to look within themselves, If you are full of keyboard warrior rage, then you leave no room to listen. @jezbuz and @Noob Saibot have gone above and beyond for this community and deserve the upmost respect, their opinions are as valid as everyone else's here and threats of a bans and getting cursed at are ridiculous and uncalled for. I know as leadership you become a target sometimes but you must be better then that and prove yourself with your actions and feedback to build trust in your community. You must be the example, nobody is perfect but if your in a position of power you must know that people are looking up to you to make just decisions and be fair. Good luck folks. I am done with this topic as its becoming a teenage wasteland. Cheers.

 

Do you guys tuck each other in at night too ? :onion-head70:

Edited by Stark 1
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Edited by Stark 1
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hey i love the ultima psobb forum

it's fair and nothing ever goes wrong here

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53 minutes ago, Stark 1 said:

 

 

 

Do you guys tuck each other in at night too ? :onion-head70:

Its called having peoples back, instead of stabbing people in the back. I would not expect you to understand.

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Edited by Stark 1

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Edited by Noob Saibot
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Muddy never has a problem defending himself. He was just asleep lol Starch you need to cool it.

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I posted what I posted because basically the post that I quote says the not matter what everyone says I get to do what I want. When is completely wrong and pisted me off that instance of reading the part of " I suggest". 

I'm making a damn suggestion because it's not only up to me to make a change. So pretty much the post that I quote is a completely Lie of what it happens and people keep believing this bullshit. And to be honest it would be way easier if I do what I believe with out permission 😡.

The item is a mixture of input from members of the staff the only thing I did was go put the stats the staff said. Only thing I suggest was to remove FO and didn't happen.

And who was the kid who said that I don't give a F about anything?  The one who had his post hiding... That I already unhide.

Let me tell you something if I wouldn't care I would even be here at all. I wouldn't even bother on reading the suggestions of this topic. I wouldn't even care to have a discussion to try to solve this in a civil way. 

Yeah I'm the kind of the person who when get piss start cursing. 

So stop making stupid unecessary comments that don't give any suggestion at all. @mudkipzjm 

Again IILL SUGGEST TO REMOVE RIFLE RANGE and also to make some class base selection. It don't matter if that didn't happen before or other items don't... Bla bla bla we can keep with the compare all  year long. But I we are taking about this weapon SS . I think THIS weapon should have this changes regardless other items/game mods or whatever.

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here we are giving ideas of what to do or what not but this is more like a telenovela so maybe its time to close this 

No lock. - Larva

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RIfle Range isn't really the problem. I think many are upset with the class-restrictions(or lack there of). Rifle range when used on the proper weapons isn't really game breaking at all. It's when it's coupled with something like a mechgun with demons or something like that is when it's considered OP.

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3 hours ago, Emewn said:

I remember back in the day in Schserv there was a dude named Choobs who only used L&K38 Combat as Knuckles, because it was his favorite, and how he wanted to experience PSO. I still remember that dude, and how he chose to play the game when I talk about L&K38 Combat. It was his weapon of choice. 
I request that L&K38 Combat be combo unlocked in memory of Choobs.

how to make hucast the most broken class on the server in one easy step, im not hating be tbqh i want that really badly but i know it was unlocked at one point here and was locked because a max stat hucast and combo unlocked 38 with 4 way pb buffs can one combo 3rd form falz to death (yes i mean hitting the hard attack button only all of 3 times to make one combo) atleast thats what ive heard from imho the most reliable source of ultima info @Fyrewolf5

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4 minutes ago, griffeni said:

how to make hucast the most broken class on the server in one easy step, im not hating be tbqh i want that really badly but i know it was unlocked at one point here and was locked because a max stat hucast and combo unlocked 38 with 4 way pb buffs can one combo 3rd form falz to death (yes i mean hitting the hard attack button only all of 3 times to make one combo) atleast thats what ive heard from imho the most reliable source of ultima info @Fyrewolf5

That "max stat hucast and combo unlocked 38 (with 4 way pb buffs) can one combo 3rd form falz to death" argument is quite silly.
Just because you tagged Saith doesn't give your statement any weight whatsoever. 
Please don't @ me again in the middle of all this drama. It's enough people love to try to pick on me, because I'm me.

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I mean, if we're quoting Saith, we should quote him directly. @Emewn @griffeni

Quote

Since it keeps getting mentioned, I have to reiterate that unlocked L&K38 is really not something I would ever consider, even class locked. The model might be something used, but the archetype is detrimental to the game if it's unlocked.

Regular mechguns shine as a weapon because they translate all your base atp into 9 attacks (meaning that it's when you have shifta that they're powerful), whereas most other weapons only have 3 to 6 attacks. Stepping up from 9 attacks to 15 attacks is a large step up over that, and having that even as a class locked weapon still just makes it the de facto only weapon for that class because it so far outstrips the competition that there is no competition. You cannot have an unlocked lk38 at any atp value and still have any meaningful weapon balance/diversity/etc.

Those classes have access to Mille Faucille and Dual Birds, which while not as strong as Psycho Ravens, have an important factor that pr does not; they have significantly more range than pr, which is the most important stat for mechguns (hence why yas9k rules the mech department). Dual Birds have 120 range, while Mille is 100 with normal/hard and 130 with the autotarget special, about half again as far as Psycho Ravens standard 85 range (handgun range is 170). Hucaseal also really doesn't lack in damage, she is still the 4th highest atp char, but with the highest ata of any hunter she is one of the most consistent at her damage, and has better long range damage (at 30 shifta hucl with angel harp and sweetheart with no nearby males will actually still have better rifle range damage than a huct with asteron striker). Even though hucl lends itself better to being aggressive, she still does much better at all other ranges over hucast, and with that extra range she'll have already killed the monster by the time hucast is in range for PR. Racaseal is a char that can feel a bit weaker at times than racast, but much like before, she is the highest ata of all casts and significantly above racast in that regard (17ata if using kroe's). She is arguably the best character for doing content that uses a lot of hell or demon and freeze traps together, while still being able to use both cast and female gear like iron faust, gratia, kroes, sweetheart, etc.

We can't just make everything as strong as the strongest character (hucast) using the strongest weapons, characters have differences in their stats to emphasize differing abilities. At some point you have to ask when raw damage is "good enough" (most characters will 1-2 combo all enemies), and how to play to their other abilities to get the most out of them. There are things to buff up both of their damages like sweetheart, but because other stats are different they will not necessarily reach the exact same levels, you have to figure out where a 'comparably adequate' level is and reach that (for which 'how many attacks/combos to kill' is more useful than raw damage, where mechs almost never vary because of the overkill), and then figure out how to utilize their unique abilities to take them beyond that. Not every char will tackle solo games the same way, and in a team game they should all focus different aspects which some classes will do better than others.

I do feel racl needs a little more (though mille and macho blades did help her more than people give credit for), but an unlocked lk38 does not really mesh with racl well (and for hucl it'd be extraordinarily busted), it just tries to make racl into a ract that has none of their drawbacks and all of her strengths. I'd like to give her some more versatility and team supporting options that emphasize her range and teamplay capabilities, and while her damage could still use a nudge, only just a nudge and not an atom bomb in her arsenal.

Quote

Actually, Hucast cannot use dual birds (this was on purpose so that if he wants to use high range mechs, he needs to go for the more difficult to get guld milla). When I buffed dual birds, it got an atp and ata increase, but also had its requirement lowered so that humar and hunewearl could equip it. Guld Milla also had its requirements changed so that all hunters could equip that. There is also another option that often gets overlooked, Rambling May which was also buffed up a bit.

The thing is, higher atp isn't necessarily better. When I play on my humar I'm often finding myself using Rage de Glace instead of PR. While Psycho Ravens have more atp, they do not really take less attacks to kill for the vast majority of enemies, outside of stupidly high hp mobs like delbiters. Mechguns tend to overkill a lot since you are commited to doing so many attacks per button press. Since the number of attacks isn't lessened, it's actually often more beneficial to use Glace, where I get the benefit of 100 range and a massive amount of ata.
That's something that really can't be understated; the biggest drawback of mechs is their range, and the range of dual birds makes is leagues more powerful than psycho ravens despite the atp not being as much. Yasminkov 9000 is so popular because the range lets you attack from anywhere. Mille's special outranges even dual birds and the autotarget can do some really fancy things, but it's unfortunate that it's only active half the time (divine punishement is kinda lame the other half). Rambling May has handgun range (170), which is more than enough for nearly any room size, so it also is extremely powerful just because of that alone. Another buff that often gets overlooked is Angel Harp got a significant atp increase (it's now amongst the strongest lasers; the top level ones are only 450-550atp), and it also syngerizes with sweetheart(also buffed from vanilla) to go even higher than that, so it's  over 800 atp on a rifle if combined with that armor which also inherently boosts your atp as well (+35atp, +15-25% weaponATP when standing near 1-3 males, great resists).

I think you aren't really looking at the strengths of classes very well and trying to compare the strength of one to the weakness of another. Hucaseal has extremely high ATA for a hunter (only 6 less than racast), but has access to sweetheart and sue's coat armors for more atp, kroes sweater for more ata, and many good high range weapons over hucast. The potential for 37 more ata than a hucast while still being 4th highest atp char is not to be taken lightly. Humar is more difficult to play, but any cave/temple hunts I would much rather do on my humar than my hucaseal (can actually stun lilies) while being able to do tons of damage and deal with being low hp from zanba usage better, has some use in cmode and bmode, and will clear normal-vhard better (power glove + hylian shield for rafoie lulz; techs may get overlooked a lot, but even outside of normal - vhard, you wouldn't consider time attacking a TTF on ultimate without someone to gizonde vol opt, which humar can do extremely well). Hunewearl gets 20 buffs and debuffs without tanking baseATP to really low values (1337atp still, just below ramr-1360, hucl 1401, ract 1450, humr 1497, huct 1739), but she also is the only hunter that can use Lindcray, giving her an extremely powerful rifle to use.
Racast sounds good on paper, but he's actually pretty garbage at a lot of things; his soloing is incredibly weak and his ata is pretty shit. By contrast, Ramar has almost as much atp, way way higher ata without need for anything special, and has 15 shifta which is huge. Ramarl has both buffs and debuffs, competitive ata if she uses kroes, and has been the go to character for both random soloing and support in time attack due to her buffs and range options (although with changes to clio to allow hunewearl and addition of other support gear like costume/armor tech boosts, hunl can fulfill that role decently). Racaseal is the best user of Yasminkov series weapons if using gratia and kroes sweater, and those are some of the best in class of any weapons; especially nice when using hell yas 7k / 3k, as those ignore her lower atp and allow her to focus on her strengths of having both freeze traps and the highest ata with yas. Sometimes it's hard to see some of the character's strengths because it looks like an obvious answer is overshadowing the others, but it's not always that intuitive; as an example, Casts/Caseals see traps natively, but who actually clears traps best for the team? Fleshies do, not the robots.

If you just want to examine things in a vacuum, sure hucast has stupidly broken baseATP (which is the main thing shifta scales onto), and racast has strong atp for shifta when he's in a team, but they're both pretty blind comparatively and counting on 80hit gear to carry you through isn't really a good argument to say they're better. If I'm going to play a hunter, being able to abuse hucaseal's insane ata with charge mechs, hunewearl's stupid strong range options like lindcray, and humar's more liberal zanba usage can be pretty powerful options. If I'm on a ranger, then abusing ramar/ramarl's high ata with OP demons that fleshies have access to and ability to buff/debuff can be a massive help to a team, or racaseal synergy with hell yasminkovs to quickly tear through enemies I would struggle to take down with pr on a racast solo. There's a reason I'm often dual-logging a fo when I'm soloing on my racast; even if you think you have the best gear, sometimes it's still garbage on him. If you go to use a 0abeast DM on Gal Gryphon with no buffs and no s-rank to debuff, you do like 100-200 damage only. Trying to take out a sinow zoa in ❤️ combos with PR no machine or froozer+PR is highly unlikely (need really good hit rng, quick reflexes, and already in position on dropping sinow for 2 combo). I'm pretty sure I could outclass my racast seabed times if I was on racaseal instead save for one skip on one map that she can't do, especially if dual logging fo and wearing kroe's sweater. People will max out their weapons to 100% and add 80hit to them to try to compensate for their weaknesses and carry them through so it doesn't 'look' quite so bad, but it's still comparatively bad to what other classes could do even without being taken to similar extremes. If my dm had 100abeast and 80hit, sure I could kill gal gryphon ok with my racast, but it doesn't change the fact that a ramar/ramarl using their shifta/zalure/s-rank zalure and a 50abeast dm 50hit dm would still outclass me with much less invested.

Are Hucast and Racast good in team games when they have a lot of strong gear? Absolutely. Are they straight up better at everything than other classes? Absolutely not. They're barely even better in teamplay in the first place when raw damage reaches a threshold of 'good enough' and utility like good demons / hell / buffs / etc. starts to really shine. I said that we had discussed making a class restricted unlocked one before, but we haven't for good reason. An unlocked lk38 isn't something you can just 'balance' it's not a weapon where you'll find a magical middle ground that works; even if I put it at 0 weaponATP it would not be enough. It's either completely busted OP or completely busted DMC machine. And just for the ultimate point on that, L&K38 WAS unlocked on this server for a very brief time. You know why it's back to being locked? Hucast could literally kill Dark Falz final form in one combo.

I've spoken to him a lot on the topic.

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