Ideas to improve the server - feel free to post!

[Misombre]

You get that we're not talking about ip check to prevent dual logging right ? We're talking about ip check to prevent dual loggers to have multiple rare drops if the "drop per person" was implemented =)

So it's not about getting rid of dual log. But much more "how to handle" dual logging with a dpp paradigm.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Misombre

[Saber +7]

Even then it shouldn't be not allowed

[under9000]

If we had the Ephinea PSO2 Drop system (minus the drop rate becoming harder as more people join), why would you even need Dual logging though?

If you get rid of dual logging + the Ephinea PSO2 Drop system (minus the drop rate becoming harder as more people join), it would encourage people teaming up with others for the Room ID, thus making people play with each other and meet people they otherwise would not. Which is way more fun to me than the soul-numbing Dual log hunts by yourself.

And tweaking the Ephinea PSO2 drop system so it doesnt become harder as more people join, means you could play any random game with anyone, with 0 drama because all drops would be your own.

The key difference is that no case of anyone joining the party affects the chance of you getting the rare. If they get it, it's not at the expense of you not getting it.

So, the knowledge of no matter who enters your party, not affecting what drops you get or not, alleviates those who'd possibly rage. Yeah, they can get lucky, but lucky on their own little separated drop system.

Arent we the only PSO BB server ( of the 4 main ones) with dual logging anyways?

I understand this would not likely happen, being a radical change to what we have now. It just sounds awesome to me to be able to play with anyone at anytime, never having to call drops, or spend 2X the hunting time helping your friend find the item.

Edited February 26, 2016 by currey26

[Midori]

Currey gets it. For the people who dual log and play by themselves to hunt rares (myself included), ask yourself why you do it. The reason is because it's the best way to play the game, right? So if things changed, and the new best way to play the game would be to play with other people, wouldn't that be better? You can still play the game the best way, but it would be a lot more fun because you don't have to be lonely and bored soloing anymore.

[Misombre]

I agree with you both.

That would still be the more logical and easy way to do it.

I think that dual logging has had its use, when the server was just a new born and there were not that much people to play with. It was kind of a smart way to get over the low number of player. Now we can (pretty much) safely say that it's not the case anymore. Perhaps it is time to move on and let dual logging go.

[zaykho]

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Edited March 18, 2016 by zaykho

[Saber +7]

I can't find PSOBB Nexus... Got a link or something?

[Fyrewolf5]

Currey gets it. For the people who dual log and play by themselves to hunt rares (myself included), ask yourself why you do it. The reason is because it's the best way to play the game, right? So if things changed, and the new best way to play the game would be to play with other people, wouldn't that be better? You can still play the game the best way, but it would be a lot more fun because you don't have to be lonely and bored soloing anymore.

There's a lot of reasons to dual log that have nothing to do with "efficiency". Sometimes you have a 3 person group but no one has a needed id, and everyone in lobby is afk (this happens quite a lot actually). Sometimes you don't want to play as a specific character that is required. Sometimes you want to have buffs. Sometimes you want to be able to host a trade room or chat in lobby while hunting in another room. Or a multitude of other reasons. Getting rid of dual-logging is going to piss off a lot of people and take away a whole lot of things.

There's actually a far bigger problem here. You don't have to do something ONLY when/because it benefits yourself short-term. If the only reason one always plays alone is because one thinks it's the best way to make it in this game, that kind of person will probably never play with others anyway. This game is designed around being a team-based multiplayer game, and playing only solo will lose out a lot because of it. The hunts become boring and lonely because you aren't expected to find everything you need yourself. If you help someone out when they need it, you strengthen the team of Ultima, and then when you really need some help, it will come back around and give you support when you can't stand on your own. There are so many things I have that owe to helping out others; I may have thousands of hours played but I would never have had my 1st favorite weapon (iron faust), my 2nd favorite weapon (zanba), or my hit chain sawd, or my charge yas, or arrest needle, or my master sword, or a huge number of other things had I not helped out others when they needed it and gotten help back when I needed it. In this style of game, your strength does not come solely from yourself, but from the people standing beside you.

You aren't supposed to make it on your own. If you think your best chance to do so is to go completely solo, then it makes this a cold and lonely game, and much harder game than it needs to be.

That's why I want to encourage people to be open and welcoming; because when you help others, you actually help yourself when you truly need it, even if you can't see it right away.

[Midori]

OK let me try to explain this with numbers for everyone.

With our current system:

Let's say there is a rare item that drops from a boss with a drop rate of 1/100 and it takes a solo player 20 mins per run. It takes them 33 hours to find the item. If 4 players want the item, they all solo in separate rooms (because multiplayer is terrible with our current system) and after 33 hours, all 4 of them found the item. In other words, this rare item is dropping 4 times every 33 hours.

With drop by player system (no change to drop rate):

Same rare item with same drop rate, but this time the 4 players can work together in the same room because multiplayer is worth doing. Each run takes 15 mins because the 4 players can help each other to clear the quest faster. After 25 hours, all 4 of them found the item. So this rare item is dropping 4 times every 25 hours.

With drop by player system and 25% higher drop rates:

Because of the drop by player system and people clearing quests faster in groups now, rare items are roughly 25% more common and less valuable. To correct this, you just raise every drop rate by 25%. So this particular item has its drop rate increased from 1/100 to 1/125. The 4 players are still doing 15 min runs but now it takes 31 hours for all 4 of them to find the item. End result, the rare item is dropping 4 times every 31 hours.

Summary:

If we get a drop by player system and also raise all drop rates 25% higher, item rarity and value will remain about the same, but the game will favor multiplayer over solo.

*edit*

Well, it will only favor multiplayer over solo if you also ban players from running quests with multiple accounts. We should still allow players to transfer items between accounts, or have a shop up while they play, etc. But it shouldn't be allowed for one player to have 2-4 accounts doing a quest to get more items.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Midori

[Ardh2005]

I'm not gonna quote Fyrewolf, as I don't want a huge wall of text, but I fully agree with what he's saying. I do primarily play solo, but that's largely a reflection of how I like to be in general. I tend to keep to myself. When I do reach out and engage in multiplayer, I do have a lot of fun with that, enough so that I don't really mind discussing who gets what drop (usually when I'm hunting with someone, I'll let them take the first one, and ask them to help me get my own). I do like the current system, and think that a lot of the ideas for tweaking the drop system are good ones. The suggestion Midori just posted would actually encourage me to come out of my shell more often. The main thing I think I'd ask for is a way to transfer items between accounts without dual logging. An in-game mail system like in WoW, or an out-of-game inventory management system like I've used in Diablo 2, might be starting points.

[Dashie IOW]

just wanted to post this but what about a system like they have on dark souls for the co-op covenants? what i mean by this is why not have co-op tickets that are just saved to your acc that you can redeem for rewards so you can start to earn tickets once u have 2 or more players in the game and when u clear a whole area and kill the boss so like clear whole of caves on ult mode you get 3 tickets or something

Then maybe have better rewards for beating some quests like ROCT giving 10 or something then players can redeem them to get items starting with cheap items like daylight scar with 0 stats or something then as u get more and more u can get like iron faust with like 57 hit or something and GMs could change the pool of items u can redeem every month or 3 months or something

Of course i understand there is a few holes with this idea but i think having some kind of system in place to reward players in a group would be a good idea

[zaykho]

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Edited March 18, 2016 by zaykho

[Fyrewolf5]

@zaykho

There are some things in there that I see as being issues.

"completely random drops" - This takes away one of pso's great strengths imo, that the drops aren't random and you can actually hunt a specific item. There are plenty of lvl n loot grindfest games where drops are completely random, but pso is one of the only exceptions where it isn't random. Taking this away will take away alot of what pso is imo. You don't have to cross your fingers and hope to get that specific legendary you want for your character to drop but never can because it's totally random, and even if by some miracle actually get one are disapointed because its stats are garbage and the chance of getting another one is next to impossible.

"drops are related to player who did 50% of damage" - This actively discourages teamwork. The goal will be to always do the most damage in the team so that you may get the drop. Some characters may not be able to do as much damage; whether they are forces with weaker stats or a hunter/ranger who is busy locking down the enemies with cc for the team rather than dealing damage, a team really working together and playing different roles may only have 1-2 characters focusing on dealing damage while the others do other things that help the team out. Making the drop position based on damage is a really bad idea.

"global activity log" - This can work if you make drops random (which I don't agree is a good idea), but it's also a workaround solution to a different problem of people only doing specific quests/areas. This is the sort of thing that should be solved by having a wide variety of interesting and fun quests in different areas that people actually want to play. It's better to encourage them with things in other areas that they may find fun, rather than discourage specific areas where they want to go to have fun

"market center" - please don't let this turn into a d3-style auction house crap. that made trading very impersonal and took away a lot from that game.

"id + monster rarity + difficulty affecting drop stats" - this is a bit of a nitpick, but this actually already exists in pso. different ids, monsters, areas, and difficulty affect the chance of getting high attributes/stats on weapons already. However if you are going to go for random drops, having id be one of the things that affects it may be an issue. If your goal is to make every id equally worthwhile, well, people are still going to figure out which ones have better chance of getting what are considered the "best" drops and they are going to try to rank them anyway.

Also, as for the things you listed as being problems (being in a clan/team, being able to lock room, being able to dual log, id/monster/quest drop), I don't believe any of these inherently cause problems, even in combination. Clans/teams encourage reaching out and finding new connections that you may not have made on your own, being able to lock rooms is useful for doing some things by yourself like transferring, testing, trading, talking privately with someone, etc., i've already mentioned drops before, and dual-logging in and of itself is not an issue as I see it. These are all merely tools that help players do a wide variety of different things; there's no need to ban a hammer just because you could throw it at someone's head and hurt them when there are still many loose nails waiting their turn to be fixed. The issue stems from attitudes and conceptions about the game, that for some reason in an online team-based multiplayer game people think that going alone is the best way to do things.

For everyone here who thinks this way, remember the words of a wise old man who knew the value of helping others :

Giving it away may have made him temporarily unsafe, but in the end, the help he gave ended up coming back around, saving the entire land and making it truly safe to leave the shelter of his cave.

[R-78]

I'm not gonna quote Fyrewolf, as I don't want a huge wall of text, but I fully agree with what he's saying. [...]

^You can do this.

[Shoutgu]

i was thinking to maybe add more rewards to cmode so people are more motivated to play it. E.g tp mats, type weps etc