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Ideas to improve the server - feel free to post!


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The irene fix is nice to hear to cut down on that pesky annoyance (though I vote on keeping scape doll, way better than 5 star atomizers).

However, I still don't understand the fear of others ninja'ing items (it's incredibly rare that anyone gets away with this).
Nor am I sure of how a drops per player thing is going to be balanced (it's not as simple as just divide drop by # of players in the room; 4 chances at 1/1000 is not the same probability as 1 chance at 1/250. Doing that actually makes the drop harder, which is why I said that I personally would never use it).
The drop rates in this game aren't designed around it being a solo game anyway, they are already very much designed around being played as a team multiplayer game. Nobody makes it on their own in this style of multiplayer game, nor are they expected to. I see a dpp system just pushing people even more towards and enabling an "every person for themselves" attitude, rather than encouraging more teamwork.
How is it actually going to encourage teamwork and cut down on arguing? What happens when one player in a group gets the drop (and accompanying banner) three times and doesn't want to share or just changes groups (this can already happen admittedly, but with this system it would add banner issues too on top of everything and solves nothing)? What happens if someone has to log a char just for the right id for hunts and therefore has 2 people in the room he controls (one of which can be an active force that he runs behind and spams resta/buffs/debuffs with easily while playing with the other character)? What actual motivation does it add to work with others as a team?

The problem that it's being suggested for is practically nonexistent (ninja'ing is rare, and even when it does happen gm's already deal with the issue promptly), rebalancing the drop rates for such a system is no small tasks, running multiple clients (either for convenience or buffs or id or whatever) suddenly becomes an entirely new issue, groups that actually are trying to work together get banners distributed unevenly and potentially worse drops if they use it, and it enables people to be lazy and do only the bare mininum they need to in a game with whatever group will take them to be available for the drop and hope to be lucky, rather than encourage them to work with others to strengthen each other to be more than the sum of the parts, to help others and be helped in return.

Maybe I'm being really pessimistic and negative here, and I know such a system would be optional, but I really don't see how it's going to solve any actual problems and only see a lot of potential issues it can cause. I hope if such a system is made that it isn't rushed and a lot of careful thought about how to encourage teamwork is put into it, as it really is no small task to be taken lightly.

I want there to be a way to show the new players of the community that they don't have to be afraid of others; that there are open and helpful people around, and that being an open and helpful person to help everybody out will come back around and help themselves too; that the bad eggs can't last for long in an environment like this with no large crowds to blend into; that although nobody makes it on their own, by working together we can be stronger than we ever could be individually.

The great thing about Ultima that convinced me to stay is how open and welcoming the community can be. I hope as a community we can get past any petty drama and really exemplify those positive aspects.

I want to be able to send out the message:

You do not have to be afraid of others; it is only when we work together that our true potential is realized.

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The ninja'ing of items is not the main problem. It's the fact that the game essentially punishes you for playing with others. Let's say four players all want Lindcray. What should they do about it? All four of them play together and hunt it as a team? That doesn't work because only one Lindcray will drop. If they fight over it or agree ahead of time to give it to a specific player, the problem remains that 3 of the 4 players get screwed. However, if all four of the players make their own solo rooms, and hunt Lindcray on their own, they are sure to get the item when it drops. The sad truth is that the best way for these four players to find their Lindcrays is to solo in separate rooms. If four players all want Lindcray in the least amount of time, they are much better soloing than working together.

Now imagine a system where the opposite were true. Four players all want Lindcray. They could all solo in separate rooms and find it that way, but that would take longer. If all four of them were to work together in the same room, they would find Lindcray faster overall and all four of them would get it. So not only would it be more efficient to play with others, but the game is more fun that way too.

If you understand this and still don't like it, that must mean that you prefer solo over multiplayer. And if that's the case, I must ask why you are playing an online game in the first place if you don't like to play with others. There exists many different versions of PSO that you can play offline by yourself. But even if you do truly prefer solo, that's totally fine. Just keep playing solo because you will still be able to do that. It's not like solo will suddenly become impossible. Sure, other people who play multiplayer will find rare items faster than you will by yourself, but if you don't play with others, then why would you even care about them? Just keep enjoying your solo experience and don't mind what other people are doing.

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Midori, drops per player doesn't mean that when a lindcray drops everyone in the room gets a copy of it. It means everybody gets their own separate different drops on the ground that no one else can see. Falz would drop meseta for 1st player, a monomate for the 2nd player, a saber for the 3rd player, and a lindcray for the 4th player, it doesn't mean everyone gets a copy of the lindcray when it drops.
I don't prefer solo to multiplayer, I spent a most of my post focusing on multiplayer being the desired experience to push and very little on ninja'ing. It's not necessarily about super efficiency on just one specific run only, there's a bigger picture to look at. We could make seperate rooms to hunt for lindcray and do a larger number of runs in a specific time frame, but that's not the point I was getting across. People can help each other out in multiple ways on multiple hunts, cover for each other's weaknesses and boost their strengths. If we help someone out we can get different help back another time entirely, we scratch each others backs in the places where neither can reach alone.

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Midori, drops per player doesn't mean that when a lindcray drops everyone in the room gets a copy of it. It means everybody gets their own separate different drops on the ground that no one else can see. Falz would drop meseta for 1st player, a monomate for the 2nd player, a saber for the 3rd player, and a lindcray for the 4th player, it doesn't mean everyone gets a copy of the lindcray when it drops.

Really? That's even better! I'm super excited for this.

The end result would be the same as having the same item drop four times, one for each player. So overall it would take the same amount of time for all four players to get their Lindcray. But the advantage is that, if Player A wanted the Lindcray, Player A would have a higher chance of getting the item because if it drops for Player B, Player B could give the Lindcray to Player A. In other words, this system would also be better for helping players find items, which in turn, means the game encourages multiplayer even more.

I can't wait for this update. I am so sick of soloing all the time in an online game, or getting punished when I play with others.

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Really? That's even better! I'm super excited for this.

The end result would be the same as having the same item drop four times, one for each player. So overall it would take the same amount of time for all four players to get their Lindcray. But the advantage is that, if Player A wanted the Lindcray, Player A would have a higher chance of getting the item because if it drops for Player B, Player B could give the Lindcray to Player A. In other words, this system would also be better for helping players find items, which in turn, means the game encourages multiplayer even more.

I can't wait for this update. I am so sick of soloing all the time in an online game, or getting punished when I play with others.

... I think you are still misunderstanding. The drop isn't the same as the regular drop when it happens. It's not like everyone gets the 1/104 chance for glide00, they each get a reduced chance for glide to drop (like 1/300 or 1/400), but it rolls for the drop 4 times (once per player), which doesn't necessarily add up to the same probability. There's a chance it's actually a harder drop to get when you have multiple people in the room because as I said before, if you divide the drop chance by X players, then X smaller drops chances does not add up the same as 1 large drop if you look at the probability. And even with "just giving" the item to the other player, it means they would have to take the banner just to be able to pick up the item to give to them, not to mention a lot of other issues that may arise from such a system that actually do punish you for playing multiplayer. Just because you can do drops per player doesn't mean it'll be better at encouraging people to work together, and so far I haven't seen any sort of incentive it gives for working together. That's why I was trying to encourage everyone to be open and welcoming and unafraid, that doing so will come back around to help you, because I see that as actually encouraging working together.

Edited by Fyrewolf5
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@Fyrewolf5

As long as the drop rate is adjusted in a way where the game favors multiplayer, it would work out. If the end result is going to end up favoring solo again, then there was little point in adding such a system.

If I want Lindcray, the best way should be to play with others, not solo. As long as that happens, I'm happy.

*edit*

You have to be careful you don't cause a problem for weak players. If each additional player in the party makes the rare item harder to get, then strong players like me will be punished when they play with weak players. I'd like a system where even a weak player can be welcomed to join and feel like they are contributing to the party.

Edited by Midori
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If we think clearly about that, why would the drop rate change depending on how many players are participating ?

Of course, we already talk about that before, that would be because of dual logging. That would encourage people to just play alone with their four accounts and have four times more "luck" to get what they want.

That's the only reason I can see. That being said, how could this be solved so that drop rate doesn't change but dual logger doesn't take advantage of this situation (which to be fair would be kind of normal) ?

  • Simply removing dual log : people will not accept it (don't throw tomatoes to me ! it stains)
  • Changing the drop rate depending on contribution : I assume it's too hard to implement
  • Checking if a player is dual logging and disabling drop rate roll for all his characters except one (only one account per person will have a drop) : is that even doable ?
  • Some ideas I didn't think about : some people will have to do it for me

Pso needs to remain Fun ! Changing drop rate by a lot is not a good idea to me (people would lost interest anyway and play solo once again), have to find a way around that "dual logging" issue.

Edited by Misombre
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@shoutgu the drop rate will not be better but will "roll" more giving you more chance to get what you want

@ryukin I don't think either that dual log should be removed (even if at the end of the day, that would still be a good thing if we think very well about it).

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Although I would really love to see this drop system implemented too, it is literally impossible de satisfy everybody.

If the drop rate is not altered enough and tends to favor multiplayer even with low players then ironically, it favors back playing alone because you had better play "with yourself" than "noobs" as they won't make your run that faster (not to mention if they even slow it down with deaths and DMC) so you dual (or quadral) log to increase the chance of drops.

Even if the IP check is implemented, you could still ask people to join your room at key points like before Saint Million fight so they help you have more chance to get the drop for free exp.

Also beginners will only want to play with pros : do nothing, get free exp, have as much chance as someone who worked hard to get an item. Nice isn't it ?

You have to keep in mind that when you play with weak players, you are here to help them and/or have fun at first. You can't expect them to help you if they are indeed weak.

It is the logic of most of multiplayer games. You are in a weak team > you have an handicap. And this is normal.

Either way, whatever is done, there will always be remaining issues somewhere.

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Even if the IP check is implemented, you could still ask people to join your room at key points like before Saint Million fight so they help you have more chance to get the drop for free exp.

And that would be bad ? At least people would play together and that would be a win-win. The "strong" guy running would have his item, and the "weak" ones would have exp (and basic items dropping on the way).

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