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Individual Dropstyle adjustment and new rules regarding Multi-logging


R-78
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38 minutes ago, Kotta said:

would rather say that Instead of having 240%, The quadlogger had "4 times 60% chance". Meaning, 4 chances that a monster could drop anything with a 60% rate, In which It was possible that either

-none of them 4 characters, 

-1 out of 4,

-2 out of 4,

-3 out of 4,

-4 out of 4; 

could get a drop. 

You're still effectively multiplying your chances of getting the drop by 2.4

 

Whether or not one of those 4 players gets a monofluid (or none of them) is irrelevant, because no one is farming those. For example the PGF drop:

1 player rate = 1/327 (I think)

Qual log rate = 4/545

Edited by jdhenry124
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5 hours ago, jdhenry124 said:

You're still effectively multiplying your chances of getting the drop by 2.4

Whether or not one of those 4 players gets a monofluid (or none of them) is irrelevant, because no one is farming those. For example the PGF drop:

1 player rate = 1/327 (I think)

Qual log rate = 4/545

 

6 hours ago, Kotta said:

I would rather say that Instead of having 240%, The quadlogger had "4 times 60% chance". Meaning, 4 chances that a monster could drop anything with a 60% rate, In which It was possible that either

-none of them 4 characters, 

-1 out of 4,

-2 out of 4,

-3 out of 4,

-4 out of 4; 

could get a drop. 

[personal experience: It was nothing rare that none of them 4 characters couldn't get anything. (I assume that's because each monsters have their own DAR, too, with the weak ones who spawn the most, generally, with the lowest rate), while It was very rare that 4 out of 4 could get something.] 

Nope, I must say @Kotta is right about that.

However @jdhenry124 your statement (about PGF) is not far from the truth and that is because we are considering a low rate item.

 

Logging 4 characters in a room is exactly the same as logging 1 character in a 4P rooms 4 times in terms of drop chances.

 

And I think no one will deny the fact these following statements are wrong:

  • By quadral logging a Seabed room 137 times you get a guaranteed PGF because 137*2.4=328.8 and 328.8/327=100.55% chance of getting a PGF.
  • By quadral logging a Kondrieu on Redria, you get a guaranteed Limiter because 1/2*2.4=120% chance of Limiter.

No, there is a small chance that none of the 4 characters would get anything.

 

Assuming 1/327 is 1P drop rate for PGF and old DAR reductions, the odds that at least one player in a 4 players room get a PGF (so quadral logging included) are:

the opposite odds of "4 people getting nothing" which mathematically translates to

1-(1-[(1/327)*0.60])^4 ≃ 1/136.625573921 ≃ 4/547 rather than 4/545

 

Someone who quadral logs Seabed multiplies their chances of getting a PGF drop by "only" 2.39340 more than if they were just doing a solo run.

No much difference with the 2.4x statement here, but if we were to consider the case of 1/2 Limiter, that is

1-(1-[(1/2)*0.60])^4 = 75.99% which would mean quadral logging a Kondrieu only multiplies your chance of getting at least one limiter by 1.5198 rather than 2.4.

 

But as Kotta said, that new PGF probability (4/547) also includes finding 2, 3 or even 4 PGFs,

that are respectively 1/49686, 1/40544049 and 1/88223850625

 

Maths for curious people:

Spoiler

Assumed PGF drop rate with 4P-DAR included: 1/327*0.60 = 1/545

1/4 PGF => 4*(1/545)*(544/545)^(4-1) ≃ 1/137

2/4 PGF => 6*(1/545)^2*(544/545)^(4-2) ≃ 1/49686

3/4 PGF => 4*(1/545)^3*(544/545)^(4-3) ≃ 1/40544049

4/4 PGF => 1*(1/545)^4*1 ≃ 1/88223850625

 

What remains true though, is that you will get on average 240% the amount of total drops you would get if you were to solo.

 

TL;DR:

Quadral logging multiplies your chance of getting a PGF by 2.4 => Approximatively correct.

Quadral logging multiplies your chance of getting any rare by 2.4 => Incorrect.

 

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Sooo...my team is essentially composed of my cousins and brothers (we all grew up on this game). We have local  PSO parties all the time on the same IP address...  Would we be at risk for being flagged? Because one time we got flagged on the forums for having multiple accounts logged on one IP but it was actually each of us on our own laptops, playing together. It was appealed... but still, just thought I'd inquire about this concern. 
@Kanue @shopes @lambda_delta

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33 minutes ago, chariot said:

Sooo...my team is essentially composed of my cousins and brothers (we all grew up on this game). We have local  PSO parties all the time on the same IP address...  Would we be at risk for being flagged? Because one time we got flagged on the forums for having multiple accounts logged on one IP but it was actually each of us on our own laptops, playing together. It was appealed... but still, just thought I'd inquire about this concern. 
@Kanue @shopes @lambda_delta

I will keep that in mind.

If another GM tells you something, you can explain the situation, no worries.

We can also track characters activity so this could be checked as well.

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6 hours ago, R-78 said:

I will keep that in mind.

If another GM tells you something, you can explain the situation, no worries.

We can also track characters activity so this could be checked as well.

Gotcha... thanks for the info. I hate to add any dynamics to the update but we definitely appreciate it!! Cheers.

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Saw this change coming from a mile away; bravo to you guys for doing it and having a community that actively supports 4p games. I envy you guys lol.

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maybe i missed it but what about dual/multi log for id slaving? for example im running ttf during an event and i quad log so i can have a chance at a rare monster drop on id 1 such as lavis in caves or something then lobby that character so i can attempt a drop from vol opt on id 2 then drop that character out of the room for a chance at a bringers arm or handgun guld or something then drop that out for the 4th id for a chance at a specific falz drop?

 

every character would be on the same pc in this case  although that also wants me to ask since i dont typically toggle the dropstyle is it against these new rules if say my dropstyle is still on individual and im on a cast and i want to dual log a fo to buff myself is this okay or not since it would still be indi drops?

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10 minutes ago, griffeni said:

maybe i missed it but what about dual/multi log for id slaving? for example im running ttf during an event and i quad log so i can have a chance at a rare monster drop on id 1 such as lavis in caves or something then lobby that character so i can attempt a drop from vol opt on id 2 then drop that character out of the room for a chance at a bringers arm or handgun guld or something then drop that out for the 4th id for a chance at a specific falz drop?

 

You would still be able to do this with shared drops turned on

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now

 

theoretically

 

if i have a vpn and mac address spoof on

 

you wouldnt be able to tell

 

right?

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8 hours ago, griffeni said:

maybe i missed it but what about dual/multi log for id slaving? for example im running ttf during an event and i quad log so i can have a chance at a rare monster drop on id 1 such as lavis in caves or something then lobby that character so i can attempt a drop from vol opt on id 2 then drop that character out of the room for a chance at a bringers arm or handgun guld or something then drop that out for the 4th id for a chance at a specific falz drop?

every character would be on the same pc in this case

I mean, if all your 2 or 4 chars are on the same PC, it is all for the better to be on Shared style, because you would get drops on only one character and still get DARs reduction penalties if you play on Individual.

 

8 hours ago, griffeni said:

since i dont typically toggle the dropstyle is it against these new rules if say my dropstyle is still on individual and im on a cast and i want to dual log a fo to buff myself is this okay or not since it would still be indi drops?

It would be okay if you /lobby the Force at start.

If you keep it until Dark Falz on Individual, we can reasonably think you are trying to double your chances at RR/ADR.

If you often do that, then I suggest you macro /dropstyle 0 and /dropstyle 1, room dropstyle is displayed at room creation and start of a quest so simply check that whenever you decide to dual log.

 

 

7 hours ago, McLaughlin86 said:

if i have a vpn and mac address spoof on

 

you wouldnt be able to tell

 

right?

At first view, no.

But if we decide to investigate further then yes we would.

There are other means to detect that.

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On 2/13/2021 at 4:02 AM, R-78 said:

I mean, if all your 2 or 4 chars are on the same PC, it is all for the better to be on Shared style, because you would get drops on only one character and still get DARs reduction penalties if you play on Individual.

 

It would be okay if you /lobby the Force at start.

If you keep it until Dark Falz on Individual, we can reasonably think you are trying to double your chances at RR/ADR.

If you often do that, then I suggest you macro /dropstyle 0 and /dropstyle 1, room dropstyle is displayed at room creation and start of a quest so simply check that whenever you decide to dual log.

 

 

 

makes sense to me now with that cleared up thanks R-78

 

On 2/12/2021 at 8:03 PM, jdhenry124 said:

You would still be able to do this with shared drops turned on

yeah the original post said that, i was asking if it mattered if every toon was on the same mac adress since that was left out of the original post

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