2017 New Event Item Poll

[Fyrewolf5]

2 hours ago, Misombre said:

I'll leave that here for future item creation, please use (at least partially), @kajex or anyone making new items on this server, those are my advices for 2017 and more:

1. Try as much as possible to make "double-edged" items
   • For each bonus "over the top" or that may make the item very appreciated/op, set a considerable malus to compensate
   • Basic Example 1 : Fury of the Loan Shark : 750 ATP, 95 ATA, Charge, -120 DFP, -350 HP (if this doesn't turn out like n00b/hp ç__ç)
   • Shitty Example 2 : Last Zanba : 550 ATP, 55 ATA, Gush, +1000 HP, +100 DFP, -50 LCK
   • Weird Example 3 : Cloak of Invisibility : 0 DFP, 750 EVP, +10 ATA, 20 EDK, -200 MST
   • Useless Example 4 : Elemental Ring : 100 EFR, ETH, EIC, 50 ELT, 0 EDK +250 HP, -300 EVP
   • (I don't know how many (negative + positive) stats it is possible to set for one item alone, so this might be tricky to balance)
2. Do not make any new "charge" weapons
3. Please, pretty please, let us use our uncountable grinders ! By example, if you wanna make a 500 ATP weapon, you can leave it at 300 base and 100 grinders.
   • This would avoid finding weapon already "finished". We would have to grind it first to have the full potential.
   • Need to do something with all those grinders rotting in our banks.
   • It is kinda baddass to have a +xxx weapon compared to having a clean one.
   • There is a kind of pleasure about "crafting", "upgrading" in a game... in my opinion
   • It has been proven that grinders are taken in account into the sphering, so there is no downside to this proposition (if not hunting grinders)
4. Try as much as possible to make combinable items when it's possible and wise:
   • To avoid some vanilla weapon to just disappear completely from players inventory (aka: it will become so weak/useless/outdated that it will not be hunted or used anymore)
   • Because most of the time, you're ain't creating something really new (skin and special wise). Take Ultima Reaper by example, that one is a fail in this matter, should have been an evolution of Soul Banish in my humble opinion. Now, what do people do when they find a Soul Banish ? Hum ? Well, I'll tell you what I do, I keep one with big hit in my bank for collection. But that's what it will remain forever : collection.
   • Because this will allow people to hunt at least one part of the combinaison all year around, while still making events enjoyable because you'll then be able to upgrade it =)
5. If you're considering to make a new :
   • Claw : man, if this doesn't have 1000+ ATP and 70+ ATA, don't even think about doing it
   • Fist : man if this doesn't have 2000+ ATP at least and 70-80+ ATA, abstain yourself
   • Katana : Make an upgrade of Raikiri with more ATP and ATA and also more malus, refer to 1.
     • Example : 450 ATP (and 250 grinders to a max of 950 ATP), 150 ATA, -50 to all stats or -150 DFP/EVP
   • Cane/Wand/Rod : do something awesome with that, but to be fair, I have no idea at the moment
   • Mechgun : don't do it
   • Launcher : don't do it

Thanks for your patience in this matter. Perhaps not everything makes sense, but this is my global feeling and am pretty sure that at least half of it are "good advices"

1. None of these have any significant downsides. They're also either way over the top(the first one), or already exist (last zanba = chain sawd, invisibility cloak = kroe's sweater), or are just plain bad (elemental ring; not at all useless, it's way brokenly OP, poor design, and a ripoff of another servers' item). We can't really do negatives quite like that either. Even if it were possible, it would lead to inherently bad design as any possible downsides would easily be mitigated by other factors, and you would just be left with a way too big a power creep on items (even if they were situational only). Better but with a downside isn't always a principle that works well in practice, but especially so in this particular game.
2. Isn't the very first thing you suggested a charge weapon? Also we've only ever added 2 charge weapons I think. First was in valentines 2015 (Slicer of Vengeance), and we just got the second one (Fury of the Beast) more than two years later. It's not like we're doing it very much.
3. Several things have been made that have a decent grind. Fury of the Beast, Crush Cannon, Sil Dragon Slayer, Blood Tornado, Crimson Sword, Macho Blades all have multiple dozens of grind potential (even inferno girasole has +20), and we've increased grind limit on several other vanilla weapons like dual birds, rambling may, and angel harp by significant amounts. There isn't a lack of grinding overall for new items.
4. We already do tons of combinations, probably more than we should even. From Halloween until now, we've added EIGHTEEN combined items and five non-combination items (not including the three new units, since units aren't ever combination). I don't understand how much more you think we could do. Not everything can or should be combination.
5. I can't make Claws or Launchers not suck by inherent design. I would never give any weapon, regardless of type, 2000atp, that is just silly. The katana example is suggesting to make Raikiri significantly stronger than Orotiagito and give it more than twice as much ata as any vanilla item and still not describing a significant downside; regardless of the numbers, the design really wouldn't fit in well either. I've also only added 1 mechgun personally (the first new mechgun since Psycho Raven was added back in 2013 ), and it's a very useful one that fills a really nice role; I do not regret a single thing about Rage de Glace. The same can be said about Kajex's new Samba Fiesta. Both of these have very specific class limitations and fill specific roles for those classes. Again, it's not like we're doing mechs very much.

I'm sorry, but I don't think there is anything here that provides something even "partially" usable really.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Fyrewolf5

[Misombre]

@Fyrewolf5 I am not criticizing the content already made; I don't quite have that right.

Am barely giving advice for the future, either would have done it or not. Take it lightly.

You can make a claw good. Now why would you not give something that much ATP ? Of course, test must be done, I said 2000, could be 1200, could be 1800, etc.

It is true that we have a lot of combinaisons, very true and, you know what, it is not bad. I even think it is a good practice for all the reason I cited in my previous post.
But of course, not everything should be a combinaison. Please read between the lines correctly, I didn't said : IT MUST BE LIKE THAT AND DO NOT DO SOMETHING ELSE. I said that sometime it'd be better to have a combo than a brand new weapon coming out of nowhere.

I do not call +20 / +25 decent when it comes to grind. Also I was referring to all those weapon that literally have no grind at all. Lindcray, SoV, etc. Of course, am not saying that every damn weapon should have grind... please do not be extreme when interpreting other people thoughts.

54 minutes ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

Isn't the very first thing you suggested a charge weapon?

Actually that's funny ^^ I first wrote "berzerk" because of that, but then, just because of the name "loan shark", I replaced it by charge (and also because I was implicitly, ironically, referring to Fury of the Beast). Also, it was some damn "EXAMPLE" Saith ^^, please read words for what they are, not for what you want them to be, I never meant them to be "suggestions".
I just read the "rip off" thing about elemental ring, well I didn't knew there were such items on other servers. To be honest, the name is kinda crappy, I didn't take the time to think something nice, but at least you understand the purpose of this item straight ahead ^^" Now, that's my way of dealing with "balancing", if you find it too OP, then put a bigger malus on it.

About your 1. you are probably right. But you could also be a bit wrong. Having no concrete example at hand, I will not open a debate on this. My point was just that we always have stuff that tends to the "good/positive", and of course we would not use "negative/bad" stuff. So a compromise between both seems something to try.

@TripleR Glad you like it, though it was examples and I didn't took the time to actually think them properly. Yes I thought it as an upgrade of Steal Suit, I think it is fun that an armor can make you almost invisible, but the current stat of this armor does not make it decent enough to wear.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Misombre

[TripleR]

Yes but I don't really think they are things we should just take and add in, they are interesting. Does it need to max all resists on elemental ring? No. That said I think that cloak of invisibility is pretty decent.

Also some weapons by default have large negative effects (equip a UR and look at your evp).

Saith is right about inherently ineffective weapons though. See Galatine, no matter how much atp you give it it is not going to be good. I think op versions of these are kinda pointless. Adding new weapons involves work and testing and new skins, only so much is going to be done. To me it seems better to be making items that fill a role that there previously was a poor, or no weapon for, or replacing something we had used gross super expensive type weapons for.

[Dioniso]

I would love to see a new good rifle. 

Rangers of course have Rianov 5, Yasminkov 7000V but I miss some stronger rifle. It don't need to have some really appeling special as charge, spirit or bersek, just a solid rifle with a good ATP, the special could be a minor thing.

We had the boost of Angel Harp which is amazing but it's female only.

It don't need to be as good as Lindcray is for forces, just something between Lindcray and Rianov 5 ATPwise.

 It could be a fair alternative.

I sugest new version of Anti droid rifle in this case.

Well it was just a suggestion.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Dioniso

[Champione]

IMO they should make a sword type weapon for RA's like proof+Zanba=buster sword something cooler/better used for cast cut the zerk and give it gush

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TripleR]

Actually yas3k can make a strong and really high atp charge rifle. If yas3k weren't rifle range I'd defiantly use one like that.

I kind of wish yas2k would get opened up for hunters/forces since it has nice atp/ata and a super cool model that ejects bullets. All the yas series just look too cool to go unused in my opinion and there isn't much point to using it on ranger.

While on the topic of new stuff, maybe this could be planned already? Bit why do we have no male armor with high efr? Is there one and I am just missing it? I mean female hunters have sues coats, sweetheart for all females, sporting 40 and 53 fire resist. So I mean it is clear that in tower this is pretty crucial I just don't understand why males don't have a similar option.

Edited May 1, 2017 by TripleR

[Misombre]

@TripleR I heard that Dragon Frame has a whooooping 8 EFR though D:
And all characters can equip it~

 

(well, joke aside, not many armor have EFR to begin with, that's more a shield matter)

[TripleR]

Well I am aware that fire resist is more the domain of shields, however the high fire resist armors is really for a certain purpose, epsilon rafoie. I mean this is a very scary attack, and because of desync and other things it is really disruptive to game play to have someone constantly dying from it's rafoie. I understand it can be avoided, and that efr can be dialed in to take your hp down in such a way as to set off mag invincibility if your mag is capable of that. Neither of these work very well in a group, to the extent that high efr armors have been added in, to my understanding, for this exact purpose.

[Legion]

Would be nice to give HU more love 

[Yannv]

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Edited December 10, 2019 by Noob Saibot

[TripleR]

@yanvbraz I was actually wrong about eggblaster mk2. It is not a handgun period, it is a rifle with handgun range, hence the slower projectile and weird feeling targeting. It can't be taken as a serious hunter weapon, maybe for humar? Rifle animation is not great for trap shooting.

I've also mentioned heaven striker before although maybe only privately to saith. Pretty much perfect for hucaseals

 

Not really sure if the photon modifier would fly but would be nice if yunchang was added to an event

 

Also I still prefer hell j-cutter. I use s-ranks to make scrolling through weapons 's easier haha kod definitely better though

Edited May 1, 2017 by TripleR

[Lemon]

I personally want to see more things in these events for people who don't want to farm monsters.  Though I'm still working on what that is xD

[mudkipzjm]

I think I told Saith about this already, but might as well post it here. RA REALLY doesn't new stuff. The fact they have access to so many vanilla weapons to add special to(Yas and TypeSH/SHOT are prime examples) really just makes new stuff for ra just almost pointless. They really don't need 100 souls, Blood Tornado, Crush Cannon, any of the weapons from Easter(beside AN ofc). Just giving RA more op shit to use furthers that gap between the effectiveness of RA vs HU(not everyone is Sylph). RA can do almost any quest faster and more effective than most people who play HU.

[Fyrewolf5]

@yanvbraz I didn't do Phonon Maser because it's a Launcher type weapon, so it's really kinda meh. Launcher weapons are large, slow animation, with an attack that supposedly 'pierces' but acts really wonky when it does (it doesn't go in a straight line always, and will not really pass if there's much distance between targets), and it does 1/3 less damage for each subsequent target too (i.e 1st - 100, 2nd - 66, 3rd - 44, 4th - 30, 5th - 20, etc.). The only thing nice about launchers is that they use non-bullet projectiles (think rambling may or frozen shooter special), so they can hit moving/flying enemies and hit on first possible active frames when passing through spawning/standing enemies. Maybe I'll think of a way to make an actually good launcher someday, but I make no guarantees on that. I don't think Heaven Striker on hunter is a good idea, especially considering hu/ra differences (Hucast with Charge Raygun 50% will have comparable atp to a Ramar with HS 50% at just 30s/d), I didn't want to go too far on the Egg Blaster mk2 upgrade on purpose, though it is still better than other existing things. Also egg blaster is rifle series, despite being made out of a handgun combination. That's probably why the animation difference confuses people, though for the most part the actual animation speed between handgun and rifle is nearly the same(the firing speed is the same, recovery is slightly slower, and I *think* windup is ever so slightly slower, the main difference is the projectile speed), aside from on classes that get uniquely fast handgun animations i.e. ramarl/hucaseal. Idk if it's going to be bringer's rifle specifcially, but a ranged hunter demon option is something I'm looking at doing. Twin Swords are also something I'd like to do, since they are a very interesting weapon type with good animation and combo. Arrest/Frozen Fausts were cancelled and their ideas were folded into other weapons (Banana Cannon for example, Frozen Faust was more meant for forces than hunters), so it's not really likely those designs are going to be a thing. Yasminkov 2000H is a really cool weapon model, it is a nice suggestion to look at. As for the photon reshaper idea, it might be a lot of work to implement, and I'm not sure I'd use those rares specifically(yunchang is the only difficult one to get normally and it's way too good for that, and I believe it got added to be a CCC reward as a way to get good ones), and it's something that'd have to be carefully done (can always get triple 50 of any weapon type in restless lion after all). Would be nice to make it so saber -> doublesaber, brand -> twin brand, and pallasch -> stag cutlery (I don't think that's possible though).

Thanks you for the suggestions. Interesting things to think about.

[kajex]

13 hours ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

I would never give any weapon, regardless of type, 2000atp, that is just silly.

What about rocket punch?  It would need to be 2000+ atp to have similar DPS to other guns.  (Yes I'm nit picking lol)

7 hours ago, Lemon said:

I personally want to see more things in these events for people who don't want to farm monsters.  Though I'm still working on what that is xD

Contests with your impossibly hard quests.    Only soly said the current game code isn't capable of registering times for a leaderboard.  (Shame.)