New Weapon Idea: SS-Rank Weapons (or whatever you want to call them)

[Smoochum]

The Problem(s)

 

There are currently a handful of problems with the state of items on the server. Other people have ranted about many of them ad infinitem. This post aims to address 3 major ones:

 

1. S-Rank weapons see very little use outside of Zalure. S-ranks weapons cannot have hit or attributes because the data that would be used to store these values is instead used to store the custom name of the weapon. This makes them very cool, but unfortunately severely outclassed* by Type weapons, which can have hit and attributes. For example, nobody uses an S-Rank Shot because TypeSH/Shot can have 80 more ATA, making it the clear choice for Hell and Demons, where the only important stat is ATA. The result of this is that Naka cards aren't all that useful beyond the first 3.

*Technically S-Rank weapons have higher ATP and grind than Type weapons, but nobody really uses them for their damage since there are better options. An argument could be made for an S-Rank Sword, since it has 700 ATP, but this is not the topic for that discussion.

 

2. There are very few useful needles in the game (and to a lesser extent, piercing launchers). There is Arrest Needle, Zalure Launcher, Outlaw Star (I guess....) and that's it. I think that weapon diversity is a good thing for any server, especially for weapons as unique as needles and piercing launchers. For example, Hell Needle and Blizzard Needle would be very cool, but the lack of hit makes the ATA too low to be effective on EP2 on the server (and they still aren't the best on EP1 and EP4).

 

3. Soul Booster is a combination item that currently only has 1 use. It would be nice to breathe new life into this item and give players more reason to hunt it.

 

The Solution

 

Introduce two new items into the game: SS Needle and SS Launcher.** The stats would be identical to S-Rank weapons, with the exception that they would be able to have attributes and hit added.

**Why only Needle and Launcher? There is no Type equivalent for these weapons. Other weapons have plenty of options available already and introducing new items that make existing items obsolete is generally a bad idea. Additionally, every new weapon needs to be created and added to the game.

 

The exact method to create these remains tbd, but the basic idea is that they would be made using 3 Naka cards and a Soul Booster. This would likely require a GM to redeem in order to preserve the special on the base weapon, and could just as easily be done in one step instead of redeeming for an S-Rank and then for an SS-Rank. Sorry @R-78 😅

 

If you have a better suggestion for the name than SS Needle / SS Launcher, post it in the replies.

 

Example Images

 

I mocked up some custom textures for how an SS Needle might look, to make it look like an S-Rank and not just a copy of Spread needle. See below:

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Smoochum
Added Images

[jespence]

So is my understanding correct, that if you want to take a blank type-weapon and add a special and add 80 hit, it's going to cost about 70 dts?

That really, really, really doesn't sound like a good system if so and I want what you are proposing to be the solution to that.

 

[Smoochum]

5 minutes ago, jespence said:

So is my understanding correct, that if you want to take a blank type-weapon and add a special and add 80 hit, it's going to cost about 70 dts?

That really, really, really doesn't sound like a good system if so and I want what you are proposing to be the solution to that.

 

Currently, if you want a Hell TypeSH/Shot, you need to get the blank TypeSH/Shot, add hell to it for 10 DTs, and add 80 hit for it for 60 DTs. The alternate option here would be to make a Hell SS Needle, which would still need to have hit added for 60 DTs, but would get the special for "free". Unfortunately, I don't think this would solve the vast majority of the DT issue you have with it. This is more about making the S-Rank Needle and Launcher more usable to add weapon diversity.

[jespence]

If you can buy a great Psycho Raven with hit for 50 dts, and this is 70dts, then prices are really out of control;

how difficult is it to mod the game to change what you get from Cmode reward?

Like maybe a SS weapon with the options you said?

[Smoochum]

32 minutes ago, jespence said:

If you can buy a great Psycho Raven with hit for 50 dts, and this is 70dts, then prices are really out of control;

how difficult is it to mod the game to change what you get from Cmode reward?

Like maybe a SS weapon with the options you said?

The issue is that S-ranks and Type weapons never come with hit, so if you want to add hit, it needs to be with DTs or from a hit event (which are quite rare). One option to mitigate that a bit could be to give them slightly higher ATA than the base S-Rank (maybe 10 ATA at most). In effect, you'd have 10 hit on them already and improve their overall effectiveness. Edit: apparently this would be way too strong.

 

Remember, you don't NEED an 80 hit weapon to be useful. I highly doubt you'd find an 80 hit sphered PR for 50 DTs.

Edited June 17, 2021 by Smoochum

[Saber +7]

1 hour ago, Smoochum said:

The Problem(s)

 

1. S-Rank weapons see very little use outside of Zalure. S-ranks weapons cannot have hit or attributes because the data that would be used to store these values is instead used to store the custom name of the weapon. This makes them very cool, but unfortunately severely outclassed* by Type weapons, which can have hit and attributes. For example, nobody uses an S-Rank Shot because TypeSH/Shot can have 80 more ATA, making it the clear choice for Hell and Demons, where the only important stat is ATA. The result of this is that Naka cards aren't all that useful beyond the first 3.

*Technically S-Rank weapons have higher ATP and grind than Type weapons, but nobody really uses them for their damage since there are better options. An argument could be made for an S-Rank Sword, since it has 700 ATP, but this is not the topic for that discussion.

I feel like what you mean to say here is that because S-Ranks are outclassed that people aren't playing 1/3 (depends on how you view multi-mode and one-player mode) of the games available modes. It's totally fine that new weapons outclass S-Ranks. It's not fine that this in turn renders Challenge Mode useless.

 

1 hour ago, Smoochum said:

The Problem(s)

 

2. There are very few useful needles in the game (and to a lesser extent, piercing launchers). There is Arrest Needle, Zalure Launcher, Outlaw Star (I guess....) and that's it. I think that weapon diversity is a good thing for any server, especially for weapons as unique as needles and piercing launchers. For example, Hell Needle and Blizzard Needle would be very cool, but the lack of hit makes the ATA too low to be effective on EP2 on the server (and they still aren't the best on EP1 and EP4).

This isn't really relevant, but Blizzard Needle is not something that is used in the regular PSO. I agree in general that Needle weapons are generally neglected, but that's because there's no Type version of them. I think this is a very easy fix. 

 

1 hour ago, Smoochum said:

The Problem(s)

 

3. Soul Booster is a combination item that currently only has 1 use. It would be nice to breathe new life into this item and give players more reason to hunt it.

 I don't really think this is as you say among "3 major ones". Soul Booster would likely be the next combiner used for an item, but Ultimas issues are not related to lack of items in any way.

 

2 hours ago, Smoochum said:

The Solution

 

Introduce two new items into the game: SS Needle and SS Launcher.** The stats would be identical to S-Rank weapons, with the exception that they would be able to have attributes and hit added. The exact method to create these remains tbd, but the basic idea is that they would be made using 3 Naka cards and a Soul Booster. This would likely require a GM to redeem in order to preserve the special on the base weapon, and could just as easily be done in one step instead of redeeming for an S-Rank and then for an SS-Rank. Sorry @R-78 😅

**Why only Needle and Launcher? There is no Type equivalent for these weapons. Other weapons have plenty of options available already and introducing new items that make existing items obsolete is generally a bad idea. Additionally, every new weapon needs to be created and added to the game.

 

If you have a better suggestion for the name than SS Needle / SS Launcher, post it in the replies.

 

 

I don't think this is a necessarily a good solution. Launchers sort of suck so I'm not going to even address this. 

 

There could definitely be a new Needle introduced to the game that's in the exact same vein as say Type SH/Shot relative to the S-Rank Shot. Same ATA, but you can add whatever special and hit with DTs. It could just be a standard drop somewhere outside of MotV and IDS as those are way busted for hunting. Ideally it would replace some regular no event drop because those tables are boring as hell and offer nearly nothing. Anything relating a GM redeeming for you is zzz.

 

None of Ultimas issues are directly related to the lack of items. Ultima has A LOT of weapons / items. An optimal Ultima inventory pretty much has no weapons in common with that of a vanilla or GC inventory. 
 

The issues are the core systems related to gameplay and I agree that Challenge Mode serving no function is one of them. Changing the rewards is not too hard and is something I think should definitely be looked into. It's really hard to say what because in vanilla play CM adds an insane amount of replayability due to how the rewards function within Gallons Shop and the fact PDs are a little harder to come by. If Challenge Mode S-Rank clear times were made like 2 or 3 hours harder and allowed you to add hit to your weapons in 5 hit increments then it'd probably be more played than Normal Mode during non-events. This would be cool to me and also add a partial fix to the issue with DTs.

[jespence]

I would love to keep the option of adding whatever special I like for 50pds at Gallon's shop, but just get a better weapon for each rank.

B-rank: less than 7 hours: 40hit ATA 10 ATP Needle or whatever

A-rank: less than 5 hours: better than above

S-rank: less than ? hours : much better than normal S-rank

 

[EDEN]

3 hours ago, jespence said:

it's going to cost about 70 dts?

Pretty much what would be the driving force in implementing this

[C01D1]

I think all current S rank Weapons should be turned into 80 hit Zanbacons and Challenge Mode should be the only way to get them going forward. Server wide S Rank Purge!

[KILL]

Mm why not S.T.A.R.S neddle event weapon??  xd

[Smoochum]

11 minutes ago, KILL said:

Mm why not S.T.A.R.S neddle event weapon??  xd

Because that item is one of the most busted in the game?? Never gonna happen XD

[ink]

17 hours ago, C01D1 said:

I think all current S rank Weapons should be turned into 80 hit Zanbacons and Challenge Mode should be the only way to get them going forward. Server wide S Rank Purge!

Lets go , im game 

 

[Smoochum]

20 hours ago, Saber +7 said:

I feel like what you mean to say here is that because S-Ranks are outclassed that people aren't playing 1/3 (depends on how you view multi-mode and one-player mode) of the games available modes. It's totally fine that new weapons outclass S-Ranks. It's not fine that this in turn renders Challenge Mode useless.

I agree that Challenge mode rewards have been rendered obsolete by Naka Cards. I would support unique rewards to make CM more worth running, something useful - but not necessary.

 

20 hours ago, Saber +7 said:

This isn't really relevant, but Blizzard Needle is not something that is used in the regular PSO. I agree in general that Needle weapons are generally neglected, but that's because there's no Type version of them. I think this is a very easy fix.

This topic is essentially that - making what is essentially a Type version of Needles and Launchers (don't write off the launcher, it has infinite vertical range and pierces, so I'm sure it has some applications).

 

20 hours ago, Saber +7 said:

I don't really think this is as you say among "3 major ones". Soul Booster would likely be the next combiner used for an item, but Ultimas issues are not related to lack of items in any way.

Sure, calling this one a "major" issue is a bit of a stretch.

 

20 hours ago, Saber +7 said:

I don't think this is a necessarily a good solution. Launchers sort of suck so I'm not going to even address this. 

 

There could definitely be a new Needle introduced to the game that's in the exact same vein as say Type SH/Shot relative to the S-Rank Shot. Same ATA, but you can add whatever special and hit with DTs. It could just be a standard drop somewhere outside of MotV and IDS as those are way busted for hunting. Ideally it would replace some regular no event drop because those tables are boring as hell and offer nearly nothing. Anything relating a GM redeeming for you is zzz.

I agree that a TypeNE/Needle (which is essentially what I am proposing) would solve the issue of there only being one good needle in the game, when it's such a useful weapon type. Where you and I disagree is the method of obtaining it. I see this as an opportunity to make Naka Cards useful for something other than a single Zal Launcher and a Zal Handgun for HUcast if you really want. I agree that requiring a GM is a knock against it, but GMs are already required to redeem Naka Cards, this would just allow them to be redeemed into something else (at least by my logic).

[Kotta]

2 hours ago, KILL said:

Mm why not S.T.A.R.S neddle event weapon??  xd

 

2 hours ago, Smoochum said:

Because that item is one of the most busted in the game?? Never gonna happen XD

 

There Is one way the S.T.A.R.S. Needle can be added as event weapon....

 

[Just make a Combo Locked S.T.A.R.S. Needle, and maybe call It "Mio's Broken Nails" ]

[KILL]

5 hours ago, Smoochum said:

Because that item is one of the most busted in the game?? Never gonna happen XD

Yes is the most busted all the people want that neddle including me why not make it a event weapon for example in christmass anniversary or summer event drop i think one of the best drops whit a hard rate but not impossible rate same at pgf?? Is only in my opinion