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EFR

Ultima server's economy is really really bad.

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1 hour ago, lildavid07 said:

Actually @kajex the remix God @Fyrewolf5 has donated once

Yea, for an id change and a mat reset. I have never used either dts to add hit or stats to a weapon, and haven't used pds on weapons outside of minievents (i.e. never sphered in gallon's shop, haven't even bothered to do the option to unlock it). And yet, even without that I have many sphered weapons (or even just extra % over 50), and high hit gear, and several hundred dts and pds to my name. I barely even trade really either.

The thing is, nobody NEEDS 80hit% on their gear really. You can use 0hit gear and still hit things in ep2, just try taking a 0hit sh/shot with hell on a racast into seabed and you will hell a ton even without doing any sn glitching. While hit does increase your ata obviously, the myth that you need to donate money and you need way more than 40-50% to play in ep2 is utter bollocks.

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^Agree 99%, except like I mentioned, I think there is a great way to make PDs actually matter all the time. Like the hit event just happened 2 months ago and already PDs are worthless, that's not a good thing

 

*edit* meant agree with ryukin, but also agree with saith. It really doesn't seem that daunting of a task to get some nice gear slowly but surely even without spending any money

Edited by shong

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Supply-and-demand.jpg

It's simple supply and demand folks. More buyers (demand) results in higher priced items while more sellers (supply) results in lower priced items. You can't (no one can) blame this on the users of the economy. Sellers are just looking to get a fair price for their items. And buyers want to have the item. The question is: what is a fair price? What is the buyer prepared to pay? Obviously the majority of the people think that 300-500dts is not a fair price for dark weapons so something needs to be done. But because of the limited supply and the insane demand for dark weapons this is simply what the price is at this point. But that's not up to the users to fix. It's not our fault anyway that the item is so rare. (fyi: I paid 350dts of my hard earned dts for my dark flow)

Edited by magictrick
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3 minutes ago, magictrick said:

Supply-and-demand.jpg

It's simple supply and demand folks. More buyers (demand) results in higher priced items while more sellers (supply) results in lower priced items.

I agree with you on the fact that supply and demand is a thing, but what happens when supply is plentiful and demand is high?

People are still gonna charge the same generally. Look at (Green) Midori, he had like 5000+ materials, yet chose to sell at 5:1 because he could, and would "justify" it by saying that "It's just supply and demand..". Most people don't quite wanna hunt their own materials, despite saying the rate is 10:1 (myself included on both parts, but ill hunt my own usually) so they settle and buy for 5:1. Now, he could've sold at 10:1 and still probably made the same profit, albeit slightly slower. Then again maybe faster since it's a better rate for selling.

I'm not saying people SHOULD charge the same, but it'll most likely happen. Since most people prefer profit over selling for cheap and (sometimes) helping someone out.

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1 minute ago, HHawk4 said:

I agree with you on the fact that supply and demand is a thing, but what happens when supply is plentiful and demand is high?

People are still gonna charge the same generally. Look at (Green) Midori, he had like 5000+ materials, yet chose to sell at 5:1 because he could, and would "justify" it by saying that "It's just supply and demand..". Most people don't quite wanna hunt their own materials, despite saying the rate is 10:1 (myself included on both parts, but ill hunt my own usually) so they settle and buy for 5:1. Now, he could've sold at 10:1 and still probably made the same profit, albeit slightly slower. Then again maybe faster since it's a better rate for selling.

I'm not saying people SHOULD charge the same, but it'll most likely happen. Since most people prefer profit over selling for cheap and (sometimes) helping someone out.

But Midori monopolized the mats game. If there was someone else with about the same supply as Midori selling for 10:1, onviously Midori would change his price. Or he'd have to buy all the 10:1 mats and sell them for 5:1 later. But you can't really compare these, dark weapons aren't monopolized by one entity. Many DW owners have just one dark weapon they are generally not trying to sell. So supply of dark weapons is extremely limited.

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I know he monopolized the mat game, haha, and yes. Can't quite compare these two, but wanted an example.

mm, im sure if your competition was trying to buy you out, you would say no.

also, most people (from what i saw) wouldnt sell to midori because they knew that he'd sell 'em for 5:1 after buying 10:1

yes, i get supply is limited. im all for it dropping year round at a decently hard rate, or at least a little easier during Christmas event. Would maaaybe help lower the price at least a little.

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I don't think that would be a solution to what is being discussed in this topic, that would be a solution only to " I want a dark weapon and cannot get one" which isn't too much of a problem, really, so I'm slowly starting to see this topic as one more of that "gimme pgf".

Anyway, it has been asked before, and probably would be a good thing to have it more often but we'll have to see... as many are aware we have been slowly working stuff out... like the current anniversary event and the past halloween, if someone say these are not one of the best we have had, go het me the hammer... so gotta be patient and see what comes up.

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1 minute ago, Soly said:

I don't think that would be a solution to what is being discussed in this topic, that would be a solution only to " I want a dark weapon and cannot get one" which isn't too much of a problem, really, so I'm slowly starting to see this topic as one more of that "gimme pgf".

Anyway, it has been asked before, and probably would be a good thing to have it more often but we'll have to see... as many are aware we have been slowly working stuff out... like the current anniversary event and the past halloween, if someone say these are not one of the best we have had, go het me the hammer... so gotta be patient and see what comes up.

PGF rate 1/50 confirmed

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Isn't the real issue in this story that no one mentioned DB/PB ?

Why is Dark Bridge so much of a garbage compared to DF and DM ? So much inferior that an upgrade was needed for that item ! Upgrade that is not even good enough to rivalise with DF or DM. 

 

Also am I off topic ? I heard some "reworking" words out of nowhere so I'll assume am good ^_^

 

Let's talk about broken economy (in a off topic spoiler of course)

Spoiler

 

We are in France, ~20 years ago. The money was the "Franc" (F) back then. I could buy my French baguette for 1 F.
Now, the money is the "Euro" (€), so people did trade their F for €. The trade rate was something like 1 € =  6.55 F.
Do you think that now my French baguette cost 0.15 € ? Actually, my bread is now around ~1 €.
What happened ? O.o
Now the most important question is : do you think that they did the same with the salary ? =D Say I was earning 3000 F/month, do you think that now am earning 3000 € ?

So here is what a broken economy looks like, that just one petty sample of what you can find in the world ; but we're still living on it, though we don't approve it. Generally, nothing can be done, everything tend to inflation.

Ultima server is not an exception, for it is made by humans. This forum is but a window of our society.

 

 

Edited by Misombre
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1 hour ago, magictrick said:

But Midori monopolized the mats game. If there was someone else with about the same supply as Midori selling for 10:1, onviously Midori would change his price. Or he'd have to buy all the 10:1 mats and sell them for 5:1 later. But you can't really compare these, dark weapons aren't monopolized by one entity. Many DW owners have just one dark weapon they are generally not trying to sell. So supply of dark weapons is extremely limited.

Note: this is not all specifically directed at you magictrick, but at everyone in general, your quote here just has some good relevance to segwey off of.

... yea that's bullshit. There were plenty of people that sold thousands of other mats at 10:1 at the same time and they still didn't change their price anyway (and actually arrogantly tried to buy all of their competitors supply). The only reason prices are high is because people get greedy when they see someone get alot for their item and they think they can find some ignorant newbie to overcharge too. People literally tried to triple the price of dark weapons overnight. In a not even 24hour period, people tried to argue that dark weapons went from 100-150dt to 300dt to 500dt. It had nothing to do with anything like supply/demand or anything like that. All that happened was people got greedy and tried to push the price up over 6-12hours. People tried to do the same with PoST, literally 1 person purposely overpays a lot, states they are overpaying and willing to do so, and everyone tries to immediately overnight triple the price because they think they can find someone else to rip off too. At least that bubble finally burst after easter event came and people realized how easy of a drop rate it actually is.

Y'all have nobody to blame but yourselves. It doesn't help anybody to price check things at what some greedy scumbag may decide to charge for an item. People have to actually speak up against charging greedy prices far above relative expected values, and educate new and existing members when they are misguided about items. Even now I see people trying to buy and sell naka's cards for exorbitant amounts, which I want to point out are ridiculously easy drop; they are only a 1/12.8 so that ANYONE can go and collect 3 of them extremely easily. Getting 3 is only about 2/3rds of the rate of Red Ring, yet people are still trying to sell 3 for 20dt (during event no less). This isn't the sort of thing that gets solved by a single magical solution from the staff mandating 'reasonableness'; it's not an issue of currency or rules or the system(as any veteran can tell you), the core issue is a lack of community involvement (and often a willing participation in unsavory behavior such as inflating prices, because they think they can get rich quick too. The reality is that you probably aren't going to be winnning the 'i got to rip off some ignorant newbie' lottery). The only way to combat greed is to actually put your collective feet down and stand up to it.

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NO ITEM should cost 100DTs or more for in game content. how much did this entire game cost brand new when it came out on dreamcast? less the $100 for sure. Yet in game content cost more than the game itself..GTFO

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2 hours ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

People tried to do the same with PoST, literally 1 person purposely overpays a lot, states they are overpaying and willing to do so, and everyone tries to immediately overnight triple the price because they think they can find someone else to rip off too. At least that bubble finally burst after easter event came and people realized how easy of a drop rate it actually is.
 

Thank you krisjanis@vanderbilt.somethinglongname.edu. I remember that 40dts post like it was yesterday. But for real, damn near everyone has oversold something at some point to some n00b. Don't hate the player, hate the game. This wouldn't happen if donations and events were done away with. Its really that simple. If no ones gonna start a petition and send it to Larva, I don't know what the point of this thread is.

Edited by rayblasterx
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I agree with @Auroboro , in game currency (pd) should never have more worth than DTs , you have to find pd by drops or sell stuff you found to get pd , DTs you just spend money and have better stuff than those who actually hunt for stuff. ............ What i find interesting is these same guys who spend loads of DT and have all the best weps , high %s, dark weps etc. , every happy hour i see those same names pop up at the top of my screen, i actually know some of these guys by name just for seeing their names at the top  of my screen so often, hmm probly just lucky huh. #BuyAllTheStuff #FindAllTheStuff

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this need to change asap ... way to many greedy people  getting rich on others... and also why is DM worth more  than actual real gun ... lol what the hell

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6 hours ago, Soly said:

I don't think that would be a solution to what is being discussed in this topic, that would be a solution only to " I want a dark weapon and cannot get one" which isn't too much of a problem, really, so I'm slowly starting to see this topic as one more of that "gimme pgf".

Anyway, it has been asked before, and probably would be a good thing to have it more often but we'll have to see... as many are aware we have been slowly working stuff out... like the current anniversary event and the past halloween, if someone say these are not one of the best we have had, go het me the hammer... so gotta be patient and see what comes up.

Yeah, definetely I should agree, this is definetely the best Anniversary Event we ever had in the past years, the rates for STA are fair (although I didn't found any yet :P), and it is really noticeable the ammount that dropped this year increased; much more organized (now we actually have a end date for event). So I have to congrats the staff for this event.

5 hours ago, Misombre said:

Isn't the real issue in this story that no one mentioned DB/PB ?

Why is Dark Bridge so much of a garbage compared to DF and DM ? So much inferior that an upgrade was needed for that item ! Upgrade that is not even good enough to rivalise with DF or DM.

Psycho Bridge?

Well I don't think that just making PGF all year round would solve the problem. It is like all the garbage in economy comes from only 3 weapons, which isn't true. I would be happy if PGF is year round but if it drops in a single or two spread events with a better rate that would work too. I think last year only few PGFs dropped, I mean, STA is just an armor, an extra thing, not an armor that you MUST have to play, there are other options too that also do a good job, but dark weapons on this game are unrivalized, isn't the main goal of everyone to get a dark weapon? Isn't this the only server where PGF is restricted to just one event?

Years ago I traded a Centurion/Battle and 1 Photon Sphere for a Dark Meteor 50 stats, the price of PGF were around 60 DTs and everybody seemed to agree with that. I really don't understand how DWs suddenly became 10x the price it was 2 years ago. But that was already discussed here so I won't comment about that again.

About taking down DTs from economy, would it really be a good idea? The way it works right now DTs are much easier to use than PDs. Well, with DTs you can exchange attributes in weapons to the ones you desire, can split %s through the areas you want, can add hit (although we have hit event), so how removing DTs would be a solution? How high end players would make a set of the weapons they like? Not saying that having such overpowered weapons are REALLY needed, but this server is buffed, most of the non event weapons unfortunately are like garbage here if they don't have crazy high hit and %s.

Get a S-rank for example, the way s-ranks weapons works now, they barely can hit anything, they aren't buffed on this server, although they are rare and difficult to get. You will only want them for debuff specials, the other specials are totally worthless since you can have Type-Weapons that CAN have hit. You will never find Type-Weapons with %s, so you have to use DTs to get Hit on it or you wait a year for a Hit Event.

Still, I think S-ranks should have been more valuable here. A Berserk Needle doesn't hit enemies in a satisfactory way or do really low damage, if it wasn't because the SNS glitch, J-Cutters would also be a totally worthless weapon. I don't have to say anything about Hell/Demon Needle, we have TypeSh/Shot that can have both specials AND hit. S-Rank Mechgun is easily replaceable by TypeME/Mechgun. Somehow we totally "destroyed" the vanilla weapons (s-ranks) to favor weapons that you must spend money to make it usable (Type Weapons).

I just think we could have some improved vanilla weapons, so people wouldn't complain as much as they do now about not having such money to afford expensive things. We should give S-Ranks a chance too! Aren't us too dependant from dark weapons?

We'll see, in my opinion although we had crazyness hapenning on Trades, the Events so far were really good, I don't have anything to complain, they were really good so far. I wish we could have some more mini-events, adding hit to some specific weapon, some guessing password event, where you earn some sphere in your weapons, get PDs, etc. Really, when there is no HH, it is noticeable the ammount of players that log off the game.

The server should be more inviting than just having Happy Hours to compensate. I would agree of taking down Happy Hours and having easier rates, this way people could play at the time they really could play, they would not lose nights of sleep, there would be no more rush through items. The idea of Happy Hours would work if there were GMs spliting them for each timezone, which doesn't really work. At least where I live Happy Hours always happens 00:00 AM, 04:00 AM (when I should have been sleeping), and sometimes 16:00 PM (when I should go to school). So do you guys think the way Happy Hours works right now really benefit all players, or just some of them that live in the same timezone of the GM that activates it?

Don't get me wrong, I really love this server, but there are many things that we can improve to make the server more inviting to new players and to treat well the veterans.

Edited by yanvbraz
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