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Soly

Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

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Drop system comparison, realistic version. Note that this is falz, which has a standard DAR of 100%.

flIZrBm.png

 

So the important question should be: Would you rather have a Red Ring or play with others? Because with these current DAR rates, you can't have both. We need at least ephinea rates to make it appealing. 

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3 hours ago, magictrick said:

 

So the important question should be: Would you rather have a Red Ring or play with others? Because with these current DAR rates, you can't have both.

But clearly we can, considering people do play in groups and still get RR's and everybody is happy, that's how the current system works. You all play in a group, you all agree on who gets RR, then you all hunt until those people get RR. Plain and simple, that's how it's been since the beginning. So very clearly, you CAN have both.

Also, that's a question Midori asked and we already know it was a bit of a loaded question.

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17 hours ago, Midori said:

Can we please get these numbers or maybe a bit better? With this, the game would only punish people for playing multiplayer a little, so that means many players would be willing to tolerate a few less items in order to have more fun thanks to playing with others. In other words, instead of solo being 4x better than multiplayer, it would only be around 2x better. If players manage to have excellent teamwork and clear quests really fast, they might even be able to reach a point where the multiplayer penalty is very small.

Overall, it would likely mean less items dropping for the server compared to right now. "Worst" case scenario, items would drop at about the same rate as they do now. If you understand the situation and the math, there is just no good reason to be against this. If multiplayer can become worth playing on Ultima, the playerbase will grow and be happier.

I thought your stance on this was to make Multiplayer better and more enjoyable?

If so, wouldn't we swap these rates? Make 1p 54% DAR, and 4 people 100% DAR?

 

Or are you still on the side that everybody should solo forever and never interact with people?

Also, you keep talking about "understanding the math" but I dont really think even YOU understand it, Midori. I'd like to see you try to explain to me how the math has much of an impact on players enjoying themselves.

Edited by Auroboro

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5 hours ago, magictrick said:

Drop system comparison, realistic version. Note that this is falz, which has a standard DAR of 100%.

flIZrBm.png

 

So the important question should be: Would you rather have a Red Ring or play with others? Because with these current DAR rates, you can't have both. We need at least ephinea rates to make it appealing. 

Rip the math.
You can't just do that like this lol
We are ok for the first 3 since there is not DAR.
But then you are multiplicating a chance for a medium number. This is kinda wrong.
A way you can have a decent result is this (n.8) : 
Get the rate 1/19 and the dar 82/100. The rate of dropping rr in 2 people is 41/950. Now calcolate the medium number of runs you need to get a RR with this chance that is 22.
The number of minutes you will need to get 2 RR is (22 x 13) = 286min that is 4h and 46 min.
(n.7)The numeber of minutes you need to get 4 RR is 38x13 =494 min = 8h 14m (i used 50% as dar cause it was faster)
(n.5)The numeber of minutes you need to get 4 RR is 50x13 =650 min = 10h 50m (i used 38% as dar cause it was faster)

The formula to calculate the medium number of attemps you need is 
x=p+(1-p)(x+1) where x is the result you are looking for and p is the chance (1/19 x the dar)

This number is even lower than the one you found.

Edited by BK-201
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1 hour ago, Auroboro said:

But clearly we can, considering people do play in groups and still get RR's and everybody is happy, that's how the current system works. You all play in a group, you all agree on who gets RR, then you all hunt until those people get RR. Plain and simple, that's how it's been since the beginning. So very clearly, you CAN have both.

Also, that's a question Midori asked and we already know it was a bit of a loaded question.

Yes. Except no one is going to hunt for 16 hours to help others get a RR. Rip multiplayer

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Auroboro talking about Maths =D

Am holding my breath ! (I might even die doing so, but who cares)

 

@magictrick

So you assume that a full party will do the same time as a duo ? That's just a small question, but I think you could like cut one or two minutes of that 13 (depending on how good the team is of course).

Edited by Misombre
Bad target e_e

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11 minutes ago, Misombre said:

Auroboro talking about Maths =D

Am holding my breath ! (I might even die doing so, but who cares)

 

@Bk-201

So you assume that a full party will do the same time as a duo ? That's just a small question, but I think you could like cut one or two minutes of that 13 (depending on how good the team is of course).

Oh, i just did the math for the case number 8 that is a duo
Anyways TTF usually is faster as duo cause there is no monster to kill for 4 people and the darvant are much longer in 4p
Well i guess it depends by the party,

Edited by BK-201

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3 hours ago, Auroboro said:

I thought your stance on this was to make Multiplayer better and more enjoyable?

If so, wouldn't we swap these rates? Make 1p 54% DAR, and 4 people 100% DAR?

 

Or are you still on the side that everybody should solo forever and never interact with people?

Also, you keep talking about "understanding the math" but I dont really think even YOU understand it, Midori. I'd like to see you try to explain to me how the math has much of an impact on players enjoying themselves.

The thing about math is, you can't really argue against it. If 2 + 2 = 4, then 2 + 2 = 4. It's not exactly up for debate. The only time you see someone arguing against the math is if they don't understand it. Do you know the difference between facts and opinions, because it doesn't look like you do. Anyway, if you want to understand the math behind this discussion, please refer to to Magic Trick's math image a few posts before this one.

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So ultima should just let players have 3 times more drops just because they are playing with with pso 2 style drops?

Still missing the point of this system, this isn't to make hunts easier but to make everyone feel "safe" hunting with others.

Each get their own goods and let luck decide the rest.

Edit: i don't know if you are taking in consideration the drops from a normal full party should be about the same.

Edited by cyane

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3 minutes ago, cyane said:

So ultima should just let players have 3 times more drops just because they are playing with with pso 2 style drops?

Still missing the point of this system, this isn't to make hunts easier but to make everyone feel "safe" hunting with others.

Each get their own goods and let luck decide the rest.

 

Not 3 times, but something that might go. Or maybe you could do something like:" drops get generated like if you are playing with normal drop system but then the game automatically gives the item to 1 random player, (only the designed player can see the drop on the ground)".

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@cyane

41 minutes ago, cyane said:

Edit: i don't know if you are taking in consideration the drops from a normal full party should be about the same.

I think pretty much no one does at this point. Why ? Because we're thinking at the individual level. At the individual level, what matters is that YOU get a drop. That the group get a drop, YOU don't care if it's not yours (I am not talking about everyone, obviously there is always some exceptions). And well it is normal to want at least some of the drops, I do not condemn at all this attitude.

So that at the end, we may have forgotten that this new drop style was meant as a solution for ninja. Not a solution for playing together.

There were a lot of talk about either PSO favorise or punish solo/multiplayer. We all get lost in that I think. We lost sight that it was exactly the same before, but without the ninja part.

Some people obviously wanted that this new system fix the issue of locked room and people having same interest playing together.

But obviously, Larva only agreed to this system as a way against ninja. So I think it's safe to think that there will not be any significant raise of DAR. That's why perhaps there is so much people arguing endlessly on this topic xd

/dropstyle 0

Edited by Misombre
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1 hour ago, Midori said:

The thing about math is, you can't really argue against it. If 2 + 2 = 4, then 2 + 2 = 4. It's not exactly up for debate. The only time you see someone arguing against the math is if they don't understand it. Do you know the difference between facts and opinions, because it doesn't look like you do. Anyway, if you want to understand the math behind this discussion, please refer to to Magic Trick's math image a few posts before this one.

You've yet to show me the math so, Im not sure how I could possibly be arguing against it since you refuse to show us the "math" 

Also, yeah, I do know the difference, but judging from the PM topic, you clearly dont :lol:

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Can we avoid this thread gets locked please?

Edited by BK-201
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On 6/27/2016 at 2:01 PM, Midori said:

Thanks, Soly. I hope those changes actually end up reducing the gap between solo and multiplayer. I am a bit worried they won't, but I will wait to see exactly what happens before going into more detail.

They will reduced it a bit but never like you expect.

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