Hunters Vs Rangers

[Misombre]

Yeah I was not talking about global ATP but damage output. It is often better to have more strikes than ATP considering that you already have a base ATP anyway. That's how mechgun opness works so...

That aside, what the hell with the 60 grinds on PR O___o (It is not indicated in http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php/topic/10353-psobb-ultima-itemweaponarmorshieldunit-effects-ie/page-1and don't have it so I could not guess) a mechgun with 605 ATP, usable by hunter, is nonsense (I will not even mention the 50 ATA). I understand now why this weapon is so op.

Where I laugh is when I remember Larva talking about Empress/Rainbow and saying something like "he will never accept such weapons on Ultima". Like "omg it's so op the creators must have lost their mind". Man, he just casually did it with PR è_é

[tru]

Yeah I was not talking about global ATP but damage output. It is often better to have more strikes than ATP considering that you already have a base ATP anyway. That's how mechgun opness works so...

That aside, what the hell with the 60 grinds on PR O___o (It is not indicated in http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php/topic/10353-psobb-ultima-itemweaponarmorshieldunit-effects-ie/page-1and don't have it so I could not guess) a mechgun with 605 ATP, usable by hunter, is nonsense (I will not even mention the 50 ATA). I understand now why this weapon is so op.

Where I laugh is when I remember Larva talking about Empress/Rainbow and saying something like "he will never accept such weapons on Ultima". Like "omg it's so op the creators must have lost their mind". Man, he just casually did it with PR è_é

PR has an 80 grind I'm pretty sure. Yeah it's an insane weapon. More op than empress imo.

[Mr Noob]

Plus 80h p ravens can do H/H/H almost all the way. So ye.. having combo unlocked on lk38 wouldnt be like too much difference

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[Misombre]

80 grinds...

Man it's not a mechgun anymore, it's a Multi Strike Ranged Double Cannon xD

Empress is almost a toy comparing to that (but a beautiful one and tbh I'd rather have an Empress than a PR)

[ultrajerky]

i miss that busted ass empress D: an empress on a hucassy was pure sex

[solo guy]

I play solo a lot but I joined a cca room to level my fomar and I saw a hucast with 30 shifta hitting for between 800 and a 1000 per bullet on gal gryphon , I asked how much % he had in AB he replied none it was a native/dark PR . And that's what I get from messaging away from computer lol PR grinds to 80 got it confused with AN so PR is actually a 645 non variable atp mech gun

[Fyrewolf5]

Hunewearl. Maxed ATA. Red Ring. I wonder how I could do it wrong... oh wait, the "hunewearl" part perhaps =P

But tell me if there is more, I'd love to hear about it for am quite desperate sometime.

Oh btw when I was talking about "hard attack" I didn't mean on the third strike, but on the first and even second in certain case.

Now when I talk about "missing", I mainly talk about the last bosses : Vol Opt (second phase), Dark Falz, Gal Gryphon, Olga (second phase too).

Basically, I will not miss with N - H - S against those boss (even if sometime... well...)

Now it is risky to try H - H - S and it becomes inefficient to do H - S - S since I'll miss so much that I could do more damage with N - H - S

In each situation where I was previously using DLS like the amateur I am, I can now use Lindcray with better results. And I mean each situation. So, throwing DLS to garbage bin or not ? (kidding, even if just for the heck of it, I will keep using DLS for the beauty of it)

Am trying really hard to move on Jizzai a bit. But I got that stupid idea that I was not going to buy that, and at any rate, I want to hunt it myself. So it'll have to wait (not saying it's hard or anything to hunt, am just really exigeant huhu)

Maybe try wearing a Kroe's Sweater for extra 10 ata? Also, first attack is not a surprise really, the amount of hit you need to consistently hit on special or heavy attacks first is extremely high (special pretty much never, and hard only on lower evp enemies). I haven't used daylight scars on vol opt much myself because I don't use machine% ones often, but my hucaseal with sue's coat on (i.e. not kroe's) and 65hit dls manages to hit falz and olga most of the time with nss combos, so a huney with 80hit ones should be able to also. Gryphon has high evp here and is going to be difficult, might be better to do something like mechgun his face (much weaker and way easier to hit than his feet) or use sn glitched DoB / SoV or something like that.

...

Every people who did play on a server (like scht) where L&K38 was unlock should now this : it broke the game.

...

This. Very much this. We actually had LK38 unlocked on this server for a brief time. Every hucast was sphereing it to 100 dark and killing Dark Falz in literally 1 combo. Everyone, don't even bother trying to argue for it to be unlocked for hunters, it will not happen.

Griffeti pretty sure we are talking about hus so please dont lose the point. By mere logic you will realize that I was talking about hundred souls. Btw I havent seen a hu using heaven striker unless hack ^^ if you see a hunter using heaven striker do not hesitate to report that guy for hacking. Jk..

I think hs is how they call hundred souls. I have to check r-78 abbreviation list tho ^^

1- I have got 80h dls set. And yes.. there are enemies like gobbles and even sinows hard to kill on a single combo becuase special miss. Not even talking about soloing. So yes I think a lot of people would gladly appreciate if this can be done. The other day, when soly did a topic about it some ppl make were3 asking if dls could be added. So it a lot of ppl is arguing about this, is because something is happening and not only cuz self appreciation. The posibility of doing H/S/S AND HIT a gobble with dls is just beautiful.

2 - ofc I know what I am asking. Ultima hasnt been my only pso exp ^^ lk38 and mr very helpful for long range targets. This entire topic is about ra superiority. What makes ra superior in most of the cases is the ranged weapons and the fact that they kill before a normal hu approaches to the target.

The fact that we could short this gap with small changes and make hus more efficient and collaborative to parties is something I wish staff considers.

3- it was only a suggestion. My purpose was only to enfatize that freeze for hus is rather a need than a lux in a world were hus are easily outmatched by ras in most of the cases. Obviously there are exepctions like sylph, shoutgu and you ^^

4- yes I agree till I see a op racast with dm set, freeze traps, hight ata, hp and AN entering in your room. Giving sd to a op guy like this would only make him more op. Then you realize sd in these guys racast/racaseal is not a need for soloing. For the whole rest yes.. I agree to you.

5-yes but I can still dream. Dont you think? ^^

6-yes but that means equip s rank slicer. Then N/H/S or H/S/S then switch to dob or sov and make a new sequence to kill those enemies you were able to arrest. By then, you will realize that the ra with a super AN and cent/battle that joined your room, not only arrested most of the enemies but also killed before a normal hu (with v101 and low hit weapons) were able to switch from s rank slicer to dob.

7- yea maybe... Anywyas I am just still the most unlucky guy those rooms on the planet. ^^

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HS generally stands for Heaven Striker, and occasionally Hylian Shield. I've actually never seen anyone use it for Hundred Souls before(seen more of 100S instead), probably because it's already used for 2 other things and gets way too confusing. Better to use something else than HS for it.

1. "[High Tier Enemies] hard to kill on a single combo becuase special miss"... Do I even have to say anything against this? You're arguing to not only be able to hit a miniboss easily, but also kill it in one single combo. The funny thing is, you still could (sometimes) do that if you had 30shifta, 30zalure, froze it, and did SSS charge vulcan combo (due to sheer number of bullets), which just goes to show how easy things already are on this server even with buffed mobs (even though that is extreme end of a min/maxing case). The buffed monsters are one of the defining features of this server, and arguing to make it easier (through altering poss) just because high tier enemies don't always die in one combo isn't going to be convincing any kind of change. If you said zol gibbons I could sympathize (they're really damn evasive, even if they're a late area high tier mob), but gibbles is not meant to be easy. Sinows are also meant to be some of the strongest mobs in the game, only outclassed by the ep 2 minibosses and tower enemies, and dorphons/girtablulu/gorandetonator.

2. No, you really don't. See answer just above the quote of you

3. I don't consider myself a top tier hu player. I just run around doing silly stuff on my hu for fun (using silly things like musashi and master raven and orotiagito to deal tons of damage and still kill mobs well, while having fun). I play way, way more fo, and a good bit of ra, though I enjoy hu almost as much as fo.

4. "sd in these guys racast/racaseal is not a need for soloing". uh... no. They're pretty shit without s/d. They can only sort of manage by having completely sphered out things to sort of make up for it. If a racaseal tried to use a 0 abeast dm and no zal weapon to solo gyrphon this easter for PoST, they would likely do <200 damage to him. Having freeze traps and arrest needle means they have good crowd control (really though, freeze traps are usually more than enough), and having a dm means they can hit flying/moving enemies, but it doesn't mean that they have the actual damage to solo well. A good hucast with a non-sphered out DF is way, way more OP. A 0% DF on hucast with s-reds is basically as strong as a 100% DM on racaseal. Even a hucast using a huge battle fan with s-reds is stronger than a racaseal with a 0% dm. Basically, "yes I agree till I see a op [hucast] with [df] set, freeze traps, hight [hit], hp and [red sword / s-rank arrest slicer/j-cutter] entering in your room".

6. So you're saying a Ra with Cent/Battle and fast weapon is faster than a hunter with v101 and a medium speed weapon? As silly as it sounds, I'm actually willing to bet a good hunter(higher atp than ra, higher damage weapons) is still faster than a ranger(lower atp than hu, and weapon with decently good damage for a gun), even with allowing the terrible comparison v101 vs cent/battle. It will still take the racast 2-4 combos to kill regardless, including the arresting combo. Switching weapons doesn't take very long, a hunter can do the same thing and switch from s-rank to whatever other weapon while still in the recovery of the first combo (minimizing minor time loss from switching by doing it during time unusable for attacking), and then use his higher atp and stronger weapons to do even more damage than the ra can.

Hunters will be getting some love too, but they are no pushover, they are extremely strong in capable hands. Just because they will get some attention in the future, don't expect any changes to completely eliminate all tradeoffs they have to make for their power.

[Mr Noob]

There is not much more to say so I would like to propose an easy test. Make any MAX ATTACK, TTF, RT or any other timed quest in order to see who finish first. If a top geared hu team or a top geared ra team. I just wish the best players of this server were there to compete and then lets just put the results on a table an compare. Pretty sure the ra team will outmatch the hu team on every episode. Some ppl would think that the only chances for hu team is ep4 cuz of lizards. Even tho at the end, you will see that a bunch or ras with URs will cut off the difference. Even at ep4, ras have more chances because of open areas. After all that, lets talk about if hus need more love or not. We can say lk38 or any other weapon, but the fact that ras have way more resources than hus is not a secret.

I just hope to see Solo guy and tru to come and show the results about lk38 vs p ravens in order to see if an unlocked lk38 is that insane game breaking weapon some ppl say. Maybe yes or maybe not, but if ideas like unlocking mr and lk38, or to bring souls and dls into into poss, or give hus a new arrest/freeze weapon to match the mighty AN/froozer will not solve the problem. Then honestly, I would be fine with any other idea that brings more protagonist to the hu class ^^

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[solo guy]

So I did a very basic test last night and here are my results. All damage is on ult bartle with no native on weapons using normal and hard attacks. L&k 95 X 15 was 1425 per normal combo PR 161 x 9 1448 per normal combo MR 110 X 9 990 per normal combo . L&k 161 X 15 was 2415 per hard combo PR was 305 X 9 was 2745 and MR 195 X 9 was 1800 so ignoring the fact I had 800 or so atp during the test they are pretty close but Saith made a good point about Falz and I assume 1st form olga as well with the extra range on l&k and MR but currently what do HUs use on these fights ? I myself struggle with my HUcast on final form falz resorting to AS or a good raygun while RA get charge yas sphered so due to he isn't close enough for most of the fight but I can see unlocking these ain't gonna happen so I give up making points for it : /

[Misombre]

@Fyrewolf

Yeah I didn't mention that I was using Sue's Coat for it has no effect on ATA. I should give Kroe's Sweater a try I guess. I do love the idea of maxing damage output, even if it's a puny +100 (which can come handy against strong def), and Sue's Coat has a bit more def/evp (yeah I know it's insignificant at this stage) and efr. But at the end of the day if one is not able to hit a target, the damages get lower anyway so...

I'll try this, thanks ! (at least for ep2 which is where I miss the more, ep1 is pretty fine I even happen to S-S-S sometime for basic monsters, even if it's useless because they would die with H-H only most of the time...)

[Mr Noob]

So I did a very basic test last night and here are my results. All damage is on ult bartle with no native on weapons using normal and hard attacks. L&k 95 X 15 was 1425 per normal combo PR 161 x 9 1448 per normal combo MR 110 X 9 990 per normal combo . L&k 161 X 15 was 2415 per hard combo PR was 305 X 9 was 2745 and MR 195 X 9 was 1800 so ignoring the fact I had 800 or so atp during the test they are pretty close but Saith made a good point about Falz and I assume 1st form olga as well with the extra range on l&k and MR but currently what do HUs use on these fights ? I myself struggle with my HUcast on final form falz resorting to AS or a good raygun while RA get charge yas sphered so due to he isn't close enough for most of the fight but I can see unlocking these ain't gonna happen so I give up making points for it : /

Thanks @solo guy!

@tru were you able to compile your testing?

[tru]

Thanks @solo guy!

@tru were you able to compile your testing?

I don't have an L&K38 to test with, I sold all mine :"L but I did make good progress with my other tests. I may be done tonight. If someone could let me borrow an L&K 38 I would appreciate it.

[Mr Noob]

I don't have an L&K38 to test with, I sold all mine :"L but I did make good progress with my other tests. I may be done tonight. If someone could let me borrow an L&K 38 I would appreciate it.

Well if we dont get these kind of ajustments, I just hope that we can still get new features for hus this year. ^^

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[ultrajerky]

Freeze weapon for hu! make it so! :3

[Shinnomura]

I don't think things need to be added, I think the way the game was designed made each class valuable in their own way. If you look at it as a team of three, Ra and Fo handle crowd control and keeping the Hu from being overrun where he can't attack, Hu finishes off major threat to Ra and Fo. Everything is locked down and stunned, getting killed fairly efficiently. Ra in the back will end up shooting traps that get stuck over the Hu. So it's all about how each one covers the other, they weren't supposed to be designed for handling everything on their own and if that happens there will obviously be one that handles it better. The one that handles stunning the entire group will be in the least amount of danger from being overrun.

Fear the fluff