Character stat changes - input wanted

[Khireborn]

BUNCH OF BUTT HURT PLAYERS THAT GOT TOO ATTACHED TO THEIR FIRST CHARACTER. FO IS A SUPPORT CLASS. THE POINT OF A FO IS NOT TO BE POWERFUL BUT TO HELP OUT OTHERS EITHER EMBRACE IT OR CHANGE CHARACTER. FO IS ALREADY VERY POWERFUL CONSIDERING THEY ADD AN ENTIRE 1/3 OF SHIFTA / ZALURE POWER TO THE WHOLE TEAM. THEY CAN USE SLICER OF FANATIC WHICH CUTS THROUGH MOBS BRINGING EVERYTHING TO 1/4 HP AND BRINGERS ARM. YOU CAN FREEZE STUFF WITH RABARTA TOO WHICH HELPS. I HAVE SO MUCH FUN PLAYING FO BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF POWER! THATS WHAT MAKES IT INTERESTING IS BEING CREATIVE NOT SPAMMING A TECH OVER AND OVER THAT DOESNT EVEN COMBO ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ NOT TO MENTION DAMAGE CANCELING EVERYONE ELSE! OK SO THEY CANT SOLO A FEW BOSSES. THATS WHY THEY ARE FOR USE IN A PARTY. WHY WOULD YOU MAKE A FO TO SOLO IN THE FIRST PLACE. ALL THEIR ABILITIES ARE TO HELP OTHERS. TO ENJOY PLAYING FO YOU WOULD NEED OTHER PLAYERS IN THE FIRST PLACE. THESE PLAYERS WILL DO THE BOSS KILLING.

opinions are like assholes and here is mine originally they were able to solo in dreamcast not saying it was easy but possible i think that the rarer fo items like pwand bridge glide three seals hylian mg and mg+ need better percentages i mean have you seen the damage pwand does when u cast a spell mad damage to the caster bridge lol confusion paralysis not saying u need to change these but better boost i think i would be awesome since u cant make higher lvl spells or a v802

[Aiden Payne]

My post has been edited to the non all caps version. Sorry I just feel passionately about this topic.

[Lee]

opinions are like assholes and here is mine originally they were able to solo in dreamcast not saying it was easy but possible i think that the rarer fo items like pwand bridge glide three seals hylian mg and mg+ need better percentages i mean have you seen the damage pwand does when u cast a spell mad damage to the caster bridge lol confusion paralysis not saying u need to change these but better boost i think i would be awesome since u cant make higher lvl spells or a v802

Which dreamcast version where you playing lol. Don't make me ask larva to put up the dreamcast stats to prove a point of how wrong you are.

[nerdmastax]

first of all kajex awesome points you made, i will be keeping a private note of that for reference. and lee you know better than any of us what the difficulty levels are and have been since psopc(2001) so i would value your input on this more than most people. also aiden, yes its my "first" character, its also the same class i have been playing since 2001, aside from hp, the fonewearl was my favorite choice due to its high magic ability and alot of it had to do with the real life friends i played with at the time. yes i know its purpose is support, but a high enough lvl fo COULD carry the team EASIER (it can still be done somewhat, just much harder, and impossible at certain bosses,so after thinking about it it probably is resistances like kajex said). Perhaps we should approach this topic more after the event happens to see if these feelings still exist. Because without rare mobs and heavy exp, people get testy around here.

[Fyrewolf5]

I just wanted to add some small points about forces off the top of my head.

The newman forces may have higher ata max, but they are extremely limited still because they have massive base to max stat differences and little variety of good gear to use. Foney and Fonewm both require 62 ata to max (62.5 for foney), while also having an especially huge gap for mst (1200-1850 and 1098-1600). They have such difficulty maxing stats that they have to use 2 mags, so they only have a significant mst lead over other forces if they have that mag on and won't be able to melee with the mind mag on losing that much ata. They can do some areas melee at 200, but it requires very specific gear and maxed out stats. Fonewearl has such low atp that only the highest atp weapons she can equip will even do any damage above 0, and fonewm doesn't have easy access to vivienne and has to go for the much more difficult alternative girasole (good item for a year-round drop maybe?). Forces are incredibly gear and mag dependent and most can't even think about melee until they hit lvl 200 and have that gear. At least ultima reaper isn't too expensive without hit, but all forces have little variety in the gear that they actually can use at all.

[Lee]

My opinions are my own then, i hope you all realize that. I have little input on this server unless specifically asked for help by larva;

on schtserv to combat the newman vast difference between min 200 and max 200 stats i increased the material limit, but only for newmans to 200 from 150, casts and humans are fine at 150 and 250 respectively, casts have 1 stat less to max out and humans are kinda a jack of all trades.

As it goes to stats i don't actually know what scale was used to increase the stats here. But in reguards to episode 2 and 4

episode 4 is too weak to foie in general and needs some shifting about to balance the techs out before you can significantly boost them. Otherwise it turns in to gifoie is the best tech for everything.

episode 2 is too weak to megid and not enough to everything else and tbh no one likes to see enemies getting one shotted without a chance to tag them for exp so in multi mode games i would say this needs to change.

As for character stats.

Hunters in general need their hp and dfp beefed up and for ata to be a trade off with atp

Rangers need their dfp removed, evp increased hp lowered and again high ata to be traded off equally with lower atp, higher the ata a ranger has the lower it's atp should be.

Forces should have the mid ground in evp and dfp but have the lowest hp, atp and ata should be traded here to a lesser extent as for their mst, fixing the resistances above would prob mean no need for any real tech buffs class wise, maybe look at some of the equipment though.

You asked for it, you may not agree with it, but this is my opinion on a more balanced approach to classes with simple defined roles

Edited March 30, 2014 by Lee

[chuk]

I think this topic only shows what everyone already knew.

Whatever changes we will do to attempt to balance the game, there will be people pro and contra towards it.

Personally I think people are focusing a bit too much on numbers and straightforward advantages like a good weapon, special or anything alike.

One shouldn't forget that every class can outmatch the other depending the situation and that knowing how to play the trump cards of a class is what makes the overall difference. Obviously stats and specific weapons makes your job easier but this game is easy enough to play without owning too much overpowered gear and all that jazz.

So yes, we can make minor modifications to tighten the gap between classes a bit, but nothing that will completely overhaul the game balance like people seem to think will happen.

[Fyrewolf5]

Everything in the game is weak to foie xD. I do still think an enemy resist tweaking could be helpful to the game to make it slightly less painful for forces in ultimate. A not maxed out force will be hard pressed to do anything at all and while there are many places a maxed force does fine, still some areas using magic is like entering ultimate at lvl 90 again and it's just not viable. Resists are only there to screw with forces damage, no hunter or ranger uses burning/tempest weapons. Not every enemy needs tweaks but some are so bad a force may have to use weapons on them after freezing with rabarta, or demon's them to death, and some bosses are simply out of the question to solo (aka every ep 2 boss and the brick wall that is vol opt part 2). Maybe a -5 off all machines, and a select -5 eic/eth/elt for a few guys so resistant you can't magic them (like hildetorrs are also a pain for solo force). One of the interesting things about crack mode is it changes one of the lizards in ep 4 (i think yowie) to be weak to zonde instead of foie and it makes a pretty significant difference for a force trying to clear the room, as very few ep 4 enemies are weak to it.

Also megid is a little difficult to use for most forces, even in ep 2. Not every force has a high level megid and enough god/techs to max it at 30, which it absolutely needs. Only having base 22 megid and 3 devil techs for 28 megid isn't going to be very effective, the difference is fairly noticeable. The other issue is how hard it is to obtain demonic fork. At least the common enough fonewearls have the piercing, but almost any other force isn't going to be doing roct and finding a demonic fork off an ill gill anytime soon. It's probably easier for a foney/fonewm/fomarl to try to get a hell raygun with v502 and smartlink and possibly be more effective than megid. "Low edk" in ultimate means it will have at least 50 if not more, and sometimes that more makes megid ineffective where v502s multiplier will still shine. For example Sinow Zoa (blue) and Dorphon Eclair may be enemies that hu and ra will hell fairly easily with v502 on, but can eat a few dozen megid to the face without flinching. A level 30 piercing megid does have it's places, but those places where you can hit 3+ with that pierce are not that common. Tears through seabed/spaceship and not much else.

Another issue is simple techs need tweaks. It takes the same # of spellcasts to foie or rafoie enemies to death, there is usually very little reason to use the simple techs right now. Maybe make psycho moon from summit moon or something idk lol.

[kajex]

Agreed with Saith. Hell guns always are better than megid. When element quit, he gave me his 90 hit hell raygun. This is 10x better than megid 30 (which I have) in episode 2. Raising dark resistance in episode 2 will only hurt forces further, as it's one of few attacks that actually do some damge. (Yes I realize 90 hit is not a fair standard to compare to, but it is putting a force on par with the ATA of non-force classes.)

[MASSBLADE]

Hehehe Kajex you know me so well ^^ 90Hit Weapons is just soooooooooo in style right now xD