Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

[BK-201]

I was thinking about rates and this is my idea, idk if you will like it.
I think the best thing is to have the chance that at least 2 items drop is exactly 50%
In 2 players calling "n" the chance 1 item drops. the chance that at least 2 items drop is n^2. So n^2=1/2 =>                              
n=0,707
In 3 players, the chance that at least 2 items drop is n^3 + (2n^2)(1-n). So n^3 + (2n^2)(1-n)=1/2 =>                                              
n=0,596
in 4 players, the chance that at least 2 items drop is ((6n^2)(1-n)^2) + (4n^3)(1-n) + n^4. So ((6n^2)(1-n)^2) + (4n^3)(1-n) + n^4=1/2 =>
n=0,385

Idk if you like the idea, but the Math demon already took me. 

Edited June 26, 2016 by BK-201

[Berrymilk]

IT HASSSSSSSSS BEGUNNNNNNNN

[Larva]

3 minutes ago, BK-201 said:

I was thinking about rates and this is my idea, idk if you will like it.
I think the best thing is to have the chance that at least 2 items drop is exactly 50%
In 2 players calling "n" the chance 1 item drops. the chance that at least 2 items drop is n^2. So n^2=1/2 =>                              
n=0,707
In 3 players, the chance that at least 2 items drop is n^3 + (2n^2)(1-n). So n^3 + (2n^2)(1-n)=1/2 =>                                              
n=0,596
in 4 players, the chance that at least 2 items drop is ((6n^2)(1-n)^2) + (4n^3)(1-n) + n^4. So ((6n^2)(1-n)^2) + (4n^3)(1-n) + n^4=1/2 =>
=0,385

Idk if you like the idea, but the Math demon already took me. 

 

LOLL lemme get my degree of math science  and ill get back to you

 

 

[Soly]

Those numbers aren't too far from what I originally intended, except for 3p

1p = 1.00
2p = 0.65
3p = 0.47
4p = 0.37

[BK-201]

2 minutes ago, Larva said:

 

LOLL lemme get my degree of math science  and ill get back to you

 

 

Don't worry, i will be here waiting! （˘ω˘）

[malgadar]

Thank you sooooo much for implementing this; I'm sure it required quite a bit of time and effort. Feeling SAFE while playing in an open room is priceless.

 

As for those complaining: Can we at least play with the new system for a week or two and see how things ACTUALLY shake out. I'm all for improvements it's just that getting rares in this always felt like hitting a lottery. You're odds of winning don't vary much whether you have 85 or 100 tickets; it's just a matter of getting lucky

Edited June 26, 2016 by malgadar
added more info

[Archriel]

Yep! This is an awesome addition, though i'm sure I'll play with the old style a lot too!

[Soly]

We still have to tweak it, we'll see how it goes the next days.

[Soly]

Also, with the next update to this, I'll add which drop style is a party playing on in the information window when you are looking at the party list.

[ryukin]

39 minutes ago, malgadar said:

Thank you sooooo much for implementing this; I'm sure it required quite a bit of time and effort. Feeling SAFE while playing in an open room is priceless.

 

As for those complaining: Can we at least play with the new system for a week or two and see how things ACTUALLY shake out. I'm all for improvements it's just that getting rares in this always felt like hitting a lottery. You're odds of winning don't vary much whether you have 85 or 100 tickets; it's just a matter of getting lucky

That was never the point. The math dictated the old drop style completely outclasses the current new style. We're not complaining about change, we wanted change. It was never about getting unlucky, it was the math. 

[Soly]

Well.. still doesn't hurt to try.
It will be running at least for a day, you can always disable it if you decide the current settings are too bad for you.

[velociti]

2 hours ago, BK-201 said:

If 4 people has each 0.25=1/4 as chance to drop something, the chance that at least 1 will drop the item is not 1/4 x4 but it is-
1-(3/4)^4 = 0,68 (The chance that at least one event verifies is 1- ( the chance that exactly nobody will get the item) You can find this in every probability book.
So using those chances you are using the chance that at least one will get the item is way worse than 1.
 

Good analysis, now take this for thought too. Change the point of reference to yourself in the room, instead of the other 3, because it is irrelevant whether they get a drop or not, since the goal is for you alone to get an item. DAR is reduced to 25% of what it was in the original shared drop style. If the party does not hunt 4 times faster than you do solo, it is pointless to use the new drop style. As a side note, .25% of original DAR makes certain monsters horrendous to hunt. For example, if epsilon has 30% DAR originally, new style system with 4 players makes the epsilon DAR drop to 7.5% DAR.

Probability is all about bell curves too. At 30% DAR people have an exponentially higher chance at getting a rare very early in their hunting cycle  than a 7.5% DAR. Likewise at the left of the bell curve, people have an exponentially higher chance of not getting a rare at all through the hunting cycle if DAR drops by a magnitude of 4. Taking this to the extreme, items that have a crazy drop rate, about 1/300+, you are definitely better off hunting solo. I can't explain this completely but surely someone understands this too. This is why I was suggesting a lesser reduction in new style DAR two months ago. The only way to incentivize people to play multiplayer/new-style is to make it better than solo/old-shared-style in my opinion. We will get rares much easier, and dts will be flowing still since we need to put hit and attribute % on the new weapons.

I've said what I could, and won't post anything more since i'm no longer an expert on this kind of stuff. Statistics was one of my worst and most hated math subjects (simply because it was over my head when learning this alone)

[Midori]

Food for thought.

For anyone who thinks it is bad for an online game like this to favor multiplayer, or you think it is bad to have decent balance between solo and multiplayer, you need to ask yourself why it's good for an online game to heavily favor solo.

And something else strange that I noticed from reading a few thoughts on this topic. If people working together and finding rare items more quickly is a bad thing for the game's economy, maybe instead of punishing those players who work together, a better solution would be to make the drop rates harder for rare items. An online multiplayer game that encourages teamwork should be viewed as a crucial goal to achieve, rather than a harmful thing that deserves punishment.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Midori
I accidentally a word.

[malgadar]

17 minutes ago, Midori said:

Food for thought.

For anyone who thinks it is bad for an online game like this to favor multiplayer, or you think it is bad to have decent balance between solo and multiplayer, you need to ask yourself why it's good for an online game to heavily favor solo.

And something else strange that I noticed from reading a few thoughts on this topic. If people working together and finding rare items more quickly is a bad thing for the game's economy, maybe instead of punishing those players who work together, a better solution would be to make the drop rates harder for rare items. An online multiplayer game that encourages teamwork should be viewed as a crucial goal to achieve, rather than a harmful thing that deserves punishment.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

I would love in the end to see great balance between solo and multiplayer: so people can play the way they want. 

Personally I find solo play boring and monotonous (I may as well go do dailies in an MMO ), but i did because of FoN (Fear of Ninjas)

I would much rather have the dynamic party experience; even if it is at a reduced drop rate. Now I can just chill, play the game and have that fun party experience without all the loot drama.

Like I said previously the drop rate to me is rather irrelevant, you just have to get the lucky roll. 

[malgadar]

2 hours ago, Soly said:

Well.. still doesn't hurt to try.
It will be running at least for a day, you can always disable it if you decide the current settings are too bad for you.

Are individual drops bugged?

I'm in a room created with individual drops; however anytime someone picks up an item it disappears from my screen. I'm confused