Fyrewolf5

Turned in the 2 I found to mio. Glad I decided to hold onto until larva decided how to resolve the issue.

The issue isn't to find a solution that magically makes everyone happy and doesn't piss someone off. The issue is what's best for Ultima, not what makes people happy. The proper solution would have been to immediately announce that this was a mistake of a drop and there would be a rollback (if the issue is bad enough raising the rate is warranted, then a rollback is easily justifiable) of a few hours to undo the damage, but that time has already passed and gone. But to simply raise the rate is a half-assed and downright lazy solution that is detrimental to the majority of Ultima. Gathering up the red rings would take effort of course, just like any solution would, and certainly a handful of them were given to team members, but it's far superior alternative to raising the rate. And that is actually a point to note that it is a only a handful of people that got them, it wasn't 30 different people getting 30 red rings, but 6-7 getting 10 of them, even if some were given to teammates, and the logs are there to know at least know how many dropped to which people. Letting the price depreciate a bit is also much better solution. Red Ring was unobtainable for a good while with the anniversary and christmas events, and it is about to virtually unobtainable again for an unknown period of time if it goes up to that level of rate. Is the influx of red rings actually going to affect the price of the item in trade value that steeply, and if so will raising the rate that high actually counteract that relatively equally? Is removing them a better counteraction or is it entirely too difficult to be feasible? There is no simple solution to the problem, but perhaps price fluctuations aren't even going to be affected hugely enough to matter if most people hold on to them; Red Rings will always be a sought after and valuable item on this server regardless because of the buffed monsters in ultimate. Besides the solutions already talked about in the thread, perhaps I can add another suggestion of maybe using red rings somehow in some kind of small event as a way to counteract the inflation, if that's even needed, although I'm not entirely sure what sort of thing is worth enough to lose a red ring for without being too good a deal for those half dozen people that did hunt red rings. Perhaps they could be used up in some other way than giving to gms just to destroy (give up red ring to trade in Claire's Deal for some new item? to add %s to weapon? to add special to weapon? to get normally unobtainable weapon? to allow that character permanent access to TTF Ultima quest? to access Prestige mode / other Prestige mode extra? to allow x3 experience all the way to 200?). Again I have to ask though, Is the best solution really to just raise the rate, giving absolute total indemnity to the very lucky people who were on to knowingly exploit a faulty drop for massive benefit, and punishing the innocent majority of the server as compensation? Sure people want to hunt Hundred Souls and Proof of Sonic Team, but some of the other items are kinda specific (godric cloak, sue's coat, some of the egg rappy drops including commander blade, marina's bag, heavenly technique). For many people hunting an essential item they will need to deal with the buffed ultimate monsters is preferable to groping blindly in the dark for an item they're not even sure will drop on their section id let alone be the item that their class might want. And as for me? I actually might also prefer hunting rr occasionally as well, plenty of people on my team still need it and i'm still going to have to spend a lot more time, I could probably be far more productive hunting rr for my team than flailing about selfishly looking for 100 souls or sue's coat. Not to say I don't want the event items, I most certainly do, but the incentive to hunt the event items early on in the event is pretty low, whereas rr is something of immense actually useful value for all of my teammates without one. I also somewhat resent that you bring up psycho bridge and proof of sonic team. I have been critical of those things in the past, but I also have been clear that the issue with force damage lies in resistances (solution: resistance tweeks. -5 eic/eth/elt here and there, +3-5 efr here and there, maybe a few switches in weakness, possibly looking into simple tech things [ignition/tempest/congeal cloak? elemental rods? not sure about this yet]); and that if you make a combination item the only sensible way to do it is to release the item after (or at the same time) as the combination becomes active, rather than having a useless item nobody keeps because it's released before the combination, that then skyrockets in value from a worthless nothing item to most sought after item in the game because you go the other way around and release the item before you make the combination active. Also for everyone out there, Please Don't send Kajex hate mail or nasty pms. He made an honest mistake without a simple solution, but he is a great guy who has done a ton to make Ultima as awesome of a place as it is, and I'm sure he'll continue to make it even awesomer in the future, and he doesn't deserve that kind of treatment for it.

Of course the people that have them wouldn't be the ones bitching, because they actually have them. After I saw the forum saying it dropped I thought it was a nice gesture for the event to have it available somewhere, and I did a good number of runs before it dropped, but seeing the number of banners come up became increasingly disturbing, and it slowly became obvious something was seriously wrong. I got 2 from my dozen runs and I'm more than willing to give them back. For everyone else though it will be absolutely and completely unfeasible to get them at all. I can tell from firsthand experience that I busted my ass trying to farm master sword and sonicteam armor. I had a lot of free time then and I got very obsessed with getting master sword. I was farming master sword for 8+ hours a day every single day, doing 500+ runs total and I got one, ONE!!!!!, master sword. Raising the rate to 1/300 is absolutely LUDICROUS!!!, and you know it Kajex. However temporary it may be, it means that 99% of the server won't even have the time, let alone the ability to farm it at all. The idea that at least some those that were farmed were given to teammates who need them mitigating the damage a tiny bit is poor justification for keeping them and raising the rates to "compensate", first off it's still only a handful of people benefiting compared to those who are being hurt by this, and if they are using those red rings then those aren't being sold and not really influencing the economic price. Those who did randomly happen to be on in the very short time it was on got a dump of ridiculously easy rr for huge benefit, but for the vast majority of the server raising the rate that high is an enormous "Forget. You. You. Will. Never. Get. Red. Ring. During. This. Time" to all of the Ultima Server. It's such a giant middle finger from Ultima, that I'd almost seriously consider saying that the best advice I could give a new player to the server would be to "go play another game", it's that bad. Is the best solution really to give absolute total indemnity to the very lucky people who were on to knowingly Exploit a faulty drop for massive benefit, and punish the innocent majority of the server as compensation? This really cannot be the way to go. I'll give those two back in a heartbeat so that all of Ultima doesn't have to suffer.

I like the idea of having a console mag cell you can use on a 200 mag. That is a very versatile solution to the problem, and I'm sure there are players that would make use of it. Also Aiden, I'm sorry if I came off a little harsh with my sarcasm, the "head up your a**" comment ticked me off a little, but I was probably a little too overbearing with that rant, I should have toned it back a little and I apologize.

I'm a little confused as to what you mean, could you elaborate a little maybe? I'm not even sure how you can do "abusive farm" of a raised rate, you can only abuse a lowered rate. Also, Red Ring is normally 1/57 Whitill. Going to 1/300 is quite a jump. I can count the number of master swords and sonicteams found on my fingers, and people used happy hours extensively whenever they could for that. RR is going to be twice as hard for awhile. That's pretty bad. Once again, the amount of money/value that one rich person has in their bank has absolutely no effect whatsoever on how expensive or cheap items are. Your "scrap" is expensive, regardless of how much useful worth it has to you personally. The economy determines the relative value of items, whether something is expensive or cheap. Also unless that tjs was well sphered then that is a very cheap deal for a pgf.

I also think it's a really really bad idea to just raise the rate of rr from falz to compensate for the ones that dropped. The price really isn't going to fluctuate unless people actually purposely sell them cheap right now, which obviously no one will. The extremely harder rate is just going to push the price up to far above what it is/was before the bug, and I definitely agree it will be a slap in the face to players trying to gear up. The buffed monsters in ultimate make rr priority gear for every single character on the server, and no one will be able to buy them or farm them for months(or for however long of a time it would be) if those very very few people who were on in the short time the bug was there don't sell cheap. Raising the rate does absolutely nothing to the people who did benefit and farm many, and only severely hurts the entire rest of the server. There definitely will always be things to hunt even for those that have most of the essential gear, but the detriment of making the rate twice that of master sword/sonic team armor estimates of an item that is so necessary to have in ultimate is a little too much. I am more than willing to give back the 2 I found to a gm for disposal or whatever if it's necessary. Edit: I also wouldn't mind if we just let the price of red ring get pushed down a little from 80-60 or whatever to make it a little easier for newer players, seeing how important it is for gearing a character (kind of like how glide divine price has done). . .. ... ..... This is even stupider than your shoutbox comment yesterday. Cheap and Expensive are determined by the economy, not what a single player has in their bank. Dark weapons are cheap? The most expensive items in the game, which cost FIVE TIMES the price of other top tier gear (500+ for dark weapons vs 100+ for yas9k/yas7k/praven/pwand/hylian/hs/zanba/excalibur/etc.) you are just going to buy with "scrap" in the bank? mind=blown. I don't have enough hands to facepalm hard enough at how stupid that comment is.

commander blade is also in ultimate easter eggs.

Of course the mag is useless, becuase atp and ata are obviously stats you don't need your mag for, completely worthless stats to have at all right? That extra 45 levels is totally not a real advantage\ a mark3 has. Are you going to donate to make it triple invincibility too? Because having any tradeoffs in your gear is obviously dumb design, every gear should be able to give you 999 of every stat and have no drawbacks whatsoever. If you can't have 81 s/d and 5k atp whats the point of even attacking the enemies at all, other than to build that 100 pb. It's not like this is a hack and slash rpg about killing monsters, its a game about seeing how high a number you can get next to atp obviously. /sarcasm Your argument that it should have pb is the backwards logic in this thread lol. And Elenor is very much a special case seeing as it is a unique mag not normally obtainable. Also I don't believe my head is in my posterior. On the other hand, your post is a demonstration of how to "open mouth, insert foot".

Was that really a mistake from sega? It's more like they made novelty mags of the consoles that could be custom stats, even 195 pow and feed exceptionally fast right from the start, or from lvl 9 rather if you really prefer, (since no other cells start anywhere near that low other than the special case elenor), but they are counterbalanced by lack of pb. 99% of the novelty stuff that looks cool isn't actually good. If you want to make any of the mags better, then make the ultima mag be triple invinc instead of double first. That one actually deserves the buff as opposed to the most basic console mag mark 3.

Everything in the game is weak to foie xD. I do still think an enemy resist tweaking could be helpful to the game to make it slightly less painful for forces in ultimate. A not maxed out force will be hard pressed to do anything at all and while there are many places a maxed force does fine, still some areas using magic is like entering ultimate at lvl 90 again and it's just not viable. Resists are only there to screw with forces damage, no hunter or ranger uses burning/tempest weapons. Not every enemy needs tweaks but some are so bad a force may have to use weapons on them after freezing with rabarta, or demon's them to death, and some bosses are simply out of the question to solo (aka every ep 2 boss and the brick wall that is vol opt part 2). Maybe a -5 off all machines, and a select -5 eic/eth/elt for a few guys so resistant you can't magic them (like hildetorrs are also a pain for solo force). One of the interesting things about crack mode is it changes one of the lizards in ep 4 (i think yowie) to be weak to zonde instead of foie and it makes a pretty significant difference for a force trying to clear the room, as very few ep 4 enemies are weak to it. Also megid is a little difficult to use for most forces, even in ep 2. Not every force has a high level megid and enough god/techs to max it at 30, which it absolutely needs. Only having base 22 megid and 3 devil techs for 28 megid isn't going to be very effective, the difference is fairly noticeable. The other issue is how hard it is to obtain demonic fork. At least the common enough fonewearls have the piercing, but almost any other force isn't going to be doing roct and finding a demonic fork off an ill gill anytime soon. It's probably easier for a foney/fonewm/fomarl to try to get a hell raygun with v502 and smartlink and possibly be more effective than megid. "Low edk" in ultimate means it will have at least 50 if not more, and sometimes that more makes megid ineffective where v502s multiplier will still shine. For example Sinow Zoa (blue) and Dorphon Eclair may be enemies that hu and ra will hell fairly easily with v502 on, but can eat a few dozen megid to the face without flinching. A level 30 piercing megid does have it's places, but those places where you can hit 3+ with that pierce are not that common. Tears through seabed/spaceship and not much else. Another issue is simple techs need tweaks. It takes the same # of spellcasts to foie or rafoie enemies to death, there is usually very little reason to use the simple techs right now. Maybe make psycho moon from summit moon or something idk lol.

Indeed it seems the prize has been replaced with Rambling May: http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/11022-rambling-may-valentines-day/ . I think you can do it whenever. Wish I could get heart key too haha.

Hello and Welcome to the Ultima Server. Most Materials drop on varying id's on normal difficulty, so it's easy to make a char solely for farming materials. The drop charts ( http://www.phantasystaronline.net/test/newsite/droptable.php ) will list where. Currently no event going on but easter event will start soon, events and mini events happen fairly often. Racast Gear I recommend: Frozen Shooter 30+ hit (whitill hildetorr ep 1 ultimate drops it, or black paper deal), Snow Queen (no combo pierces, use photon booster on frozen shooter) Spread Needle 30+ hit (bpd, redria chaos bringers ult, purple/green la dimenians ult, upgrades to Arrest Needle with easter event item Proof of Sonic Team), Charge Vulcans 40+ hit , or yasminkov 9000 w/ charge and hit, (for single target dps) Baranz Launcher 50 hit or Charge Arms 40+ hit, or Charge Gugnir 40+ hit, or Ultima Reaper (multi-target dps) Hell Laser 40+ hit, or Hell handgun 40+ hit, or Yasminkov 7000 w/ hell and hit, or Asteron Striker w/ hit, Ultima Reaper on lizards Gush Laser 40+ hit, Gush Handgun 40+ hit, Guld Milla, Yasminkov 9000 w/ gush and hit, usually only needed when soloing with no support Red Ring (whitill dark falz ult), Cannon Rouge 40+hit (Greenil Dorphon Eclair ult ep 4), for those pesky high dfp no zalure bosses and vol opt 1 Master Raven (single target dps no buffs, black paper deal drop only), alternatively Mille Marteux (combine heaven punisher blueful hildetorr + ophelie seize pazuzu),or Rage de Feu (because it looks awesome), Guld Milla, Psycho Ravens (use summer event black crystal on master raven) Bringer's Rifle 50 hit (demons). or Slicer of Fanatic (demons), or yasminkov 9000 w/ demons and high hit Diska of Braveman 40+ hit (especially with good %s and thirteen armor from bpd, whitill hildetorr ep 2 very hard) Excalibur (because it's Excalibur. skyly/oran dorphon ult ep 4, whitill kondrieu ult ep 4) Dark Meteor (mostly for bosses) Some other weapon I'm probably forgetting Most are not that difficult to acquire. Rare monsters will help when it's on (green names in lobby). Aside from rare monsters there are also x5 exp events, and happy hour for x3 drops for 3 hours. There are also 2 specific quests with prizes (http://www.phantasystaronline.net/test/newsite/quest_drops.php) that may be useful for gearing. Black Paper Deal 1 and 2 are single player ep 4 quests where you trade 1 photon crystal (ep 4 normal and hard rare monsters) to participate in monster battle arena to win blank rares (all 0%s) based on difficulty and route. Photon Crystals can also add hit to weapons made from enemy parts, such as the previously mentioned baranz launcher and bringers rifle, apporximately 50 pcs for 50 hit. The Restless Lion is another single player ep 4 quest where you fight other hunters and take their weapons, which always spawn with 2 50%s and 0, 30, or 50 hit, i.e. the ramarl in second room might drop hell laser 50 0 0 50 50 for you on ultimate difficulty. Or arrest laser 50 50 0 0 30. Or tempest laser 0 50 50 0 0. As these quests are in One Player mode, the monsters are weaker than in the normal Multiplayer mode. Other notable quests are Towards the Future (TTF ep 1 boss rush, good early exp), Respective Tommorow (RT ep 2 boss rush good lategame exp), Point of Disaster (ep 4 boss rush), Wrath of Forest(WoF), Forest Offensive(lots of hildetorrs followed by dragon and a simulator with lots of chaos bringers to win solferino/tp material), Path to Salvation (PTS lots of mobs in ruins in secret room, run around lasers, tons of exp). There's many more interesting quests to be discovered too, and a few do have quest rewards such as Yasminkov 9000 w/hit is a prize for the Raid on Central Tower quest (ROCT), but this is an extremely difficult quest for high level players.. Here are a number of links you might find useful: Quests with Highest Enemy Counts http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/6440-enemy-counts/ Item Effects (list of items including server changes to them) http://www.phantasys...item-effect-ie/ Max Stats Increase Patch, most stats max up by +100 http://www.phantasys...pdate-patch-25/ Commands in Game (/npc 6 and above require the default hair on your character to work, if you don't and try to log in, you will crash and need to go dressing room to change your character back in order to log in again. Changing hair color affects the npc chars hair colors too! Also the common bank is buggy I advise against using it for valuable items.) http://www.phantasys...mmands-in-game/ Some nice buffs to Force weapons, notably pwand and mg+ (hylian shield for forces added later) http://www.phantasys...se-little-more/ Kroe's Sweater 10 ata 40 edk female only http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/6362-kroes-sweater/ Wedding Dress Buff and New Shambertin Drops (some of the shambertin drops are acquirable elsewhere) http://www.phantasys...and-shambertin/ Rambling May quest reward http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/11022-rambling-may-valentines-day/ Cell of Mag 502 quest reward http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/2576-how-to-obtain-cell-of-mag-502/ Unofficial Ventrilo Voice Server run by Team PRO, open to all (You have nothing to lose but your keyboard chains!) http://www.phantasys...o-voice-server/

I just wanted to add some small points about forces off the top of my head. The newman forces may have higher ata max, but they are extremely limited still because they have massive base to max stat differences and little variety of good gear to use. Foney and Fonewm both require 62 ata to max (62.5 for foney), while also having an especially huge gap for mst (1200-1850 and 1098-1600). They have such difficulty maxing stats that they have to use 2 mags, so they only have a significant mst lead over other forces if they have that mag on and won't be able to melee with the mind mag on losing that much ata. They can do some areas melee at 200, but it requires very specific gear and maxed out stats. Fonewearl has such low atp that only the highest atp weapons she can equip will even do any damage above 0, and fonewm doesn't have easy access to vivienne and has to go for the much more difficult alternative girasole (good item for a year-round drop maybe?). Forces are incredibly gear and mag dependent and most can't even think about melee until they hit lvl 200 and have that gear. At least ultima reaper isn't too expensive without hit, but all forces have little variety in the gear that they actually can use at all.

Massively lmao at pwand still being valued higher than hylian shield Kom. Also don't you think bkb should be a little bit more than only 10 more than mkb seeing as blue-black stone alone is 50 pds xD?

All other quests are greyed out because you haven't done up to 4-1 in multimode from the Principal yet to unlock the ones you need. Each section of government quest opens up its respective single player areas for questing, so you have to finish up to 2-1 to do the single player caves quests, 3-1 for mines quests, and 4-1 for ruins quests. Once you have 4-1 unlocked it really is only the 5 quests; the first 3 (claiming a stake, magnitude of metal, battle training) and the secret delivery and doc's secret plan. The next tier of quests will not show up until you do the related tier of government quests first. If you are still having issues I can just convert any items for you.

Odd bug. I have had the bug where you walk close enough to it that the light dissappears but you don't grab the item and it's still there, but never heard of your bug. You don't need that quest to open up weapon parts from Dr. Montague though. You just need Secret Delivery and Doc's Secret Plan (after the first three quests). You also need the Government Quests in Multimode from the Principles Office unlocked up to 4-1, because each section of those quests unlocks the next area (caves/mines/ruins) for the single player quests. Then you can convert in quest Dr. Osto's Reasearch.

It is the original merges on this server and not the redone ones. Here it's just the basic Red/Blue/Yellow (Ra-/Gi-)Foie/Zonde/Barta and Anti/Resta merges. Farming the amplifiers regularly is difficult because afaik no changes were made to their drop rates. However during the Chritsmas Event many of the merges drop on very hard from bosses (i.e. on various ids vol opt dropped resta merge, red/blue/yellow merge, razonde merge, etc.) There are also the server items Virus Shield: Vol Opt , 3 Seals, and Hylian Shield, which can function as makeshift gi and ra merges. Virus Shield will be in upcoming summer event I believe, and it adds 20% gi techs, 10 all resists, and 10 ata over max like a mini rr. 3 seals drops from redria and skyly very hard delbiter and gives you 25% ra tech boost along with its 33 resists. Hylian Shield gives 100% grants, 75% rafoie, 60% razonde, with 25 efr, 32 eth, 35 edk, (0 eic / elt) with high dfp and evp too, but it only drops in the Triforce Event (between summer and november aniversary event), most likely from gal grpyhon again. Most of the merges are of little practical use though. Useful ones to get are the Resta merge (maybe 10-15 pds) and Foie merge (mostly for falz last form). Blue and Yellow merges and other individual spell merges are mostly unnecessary. Otherwise I'd look into getting the other shields I mentioned over merges. 3 seals will hold you for a while before you acquire psycho wand (45% ra) and can buy/hunt a hylian (120+ - 150+ pds) for a stronger solo ra spam force. Easiest setup would be to hunt a 3 seals on vhard, look into buying a resta merge and/or foie, maybe hunt virus shield soon when that event comes around.

I started here with nothing and feel like I've gotten set up pretty well so far. I think the discrepancy between your still undefined "rich" and "poor" isn't really an issue. I didn't even trade for much gear at all, and though I've gotten a few starting out freebies from the community and mini events (like my first no hit fs, glide, and 3seals to name a few), I've also hunted all those things without too much issue, and almost every mini event I've seen around has had a pretty fair chance for all levels to win. Gear comes to those who put in the effort in to hunt it (or money to buy it I guess). Being "poor" basically means having a fresh char, and almost nobody has the highest tier on every single piece of their gear to be "rich", but getting set up with decent gear is not that difficult. The whole point of the genre to keep hunting bigger and better loot from bigger and badder monsters anyway.

http://tinypic.com/usermedia.php?uo=fNkd6hpTbcOOPcB%2BWQqNoIh4l5k2TGxc

Of course yasminkov 9000 has rifle range, that's exactly what I meant when I said that you can hit the monsters wherever they are (not that the monsters can hit you wherever you are). Whether a weapon is multiclass or not does not matter in this discussion, it is completely irrelevant. Mille Marteux is just not good in my opinion, I would use literally every other mechgun in the game over MM (the only one that has worse special is Rage de Feu, and that one looks so amazingly cool that I'd still prefer to use it over MM as well).

I'm sorry, what? I can't make out what you are trying to say. Yasminkovs 9000s with the charge special added to them shouldn't enter the discussion because.... they are an event weapon? So why is psycho raven, an event weapon, under discussion then? The biggest difference between charge yas 9k and charge vulcans is just the range, yasminkovs allow you to hit the enemy wherever they are instead of taking time to get into range, otherwise they are pretty much the exact same. The fact that vulcan can be used by any character can only be construed as better than a weapon locked to a class, so I don't know why you mention that, and the fact that shifta/deband is what really makes them stand out is not a huge issue since 2/3rds of the playable classes have access to s/d, and the other 4(the casts) can get zalure s-ranks or play in a party to make vulcans that effective too, or use the previously mentioned alternate mechgun options. Charge Vulcan's also need less attributes than Mille Marteux does, as they only need hit (%s do not add to charge damage on this server), whereas Mille Marteux wants all %s including hit, as well as the other %s to make use of it as a high atp mechgun. Among the high atp mechguns Mille Marteux most definitely does not stand out as being the best as I pointed out (and to further that, even combo locked Master Raven is better than Mille Marteux is), the weapon was being passed over and in a humiliated state long before Psycho Ravens existed. It has always been a limited use mechgun for fringe cases, only useful on cast rangers soloing and even then still outshined by the other mechguns, and divine punishment has very very little practical use. "Ranger's best weapon" it most certainly is not; it never was and never will be.

It's neither. Cent Ability gives exactly 3 ata each. v101 gives 1.5 ata and Heavenly/Ability gives 2.5 ata. I assume God/Ability would give 2 ata, as it seems like it gives 1/10th of the other stats in ata for all the other units.

Centurian/Arms adds a whopping 35 ata, the equivalent of 70 levels on your mag, by far the best unit in terms of stat gain. Centurian/Ability would count for more if mst, dfp, evp mattered, but 30 pow 30 luck 3 ata (15+15+6=36) are the only important things that gives. Adept gives even higher stat gain with the 20 ata, but still doesn't reach the same level as cent/arms does.

argh it double posted for some reason

If you use only Cent/Battle and Cent/Arms for units with Red Ring, it is possible to max lck ata and be only 7 off atp. This would use a mag of 6/178/16/0 (must have 6 def to have as low as 16 dex, with 5 def the lowest dex you could have is 18), along with 115 power mats and 35 luck mats. This is the only way to use cent battle and 1 other unit for stats, (it is possible to use v101 and adept and be -10 atp, but not cent battle and adept), and while if you are prepared to use another unit for stats then there are a few options to max completely, battle/unit+2stat units means the last unit will almost always be smartlink with no room for anything else. I personally would prefer having 7 less atp to have space for more useful units like v502, sword saint, cure shock/freeze, resist devil, etc.