Lee Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 no you really shouldn't this isn't my server. I just state what can and can't be done from a feasibility standpoint. Also a lot of modifications use my work so sometimes i have to weigh in to provide information or clarity. I'd rather not get involved in the internal politics of another server on what defines balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mylandra Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) I'll give you an example of what could be done: The playerlvltbl.prs is sent in the welcome packet it controls the stat gains per level 1-200. it's the file that for example gives you 2 atp when you level up. Now what you could do is increase the gap between min and max stats so that you cannot max out a char with materials, then send a different welcome packet to prestige players which closes the gap letting them max stats easier. as i pointed out above this is probably beyond the people doing this if they can't even get prestige working. Their prestige system as far as i know is all quest unlock based, and hard enforced equip caps by the server in the form of special items and quests. Oh and a coloured name ie not worth doing really, i'm sure choko could tell you more. Also stop using negative stats in equipment. Pso doesn't like it. especially HP. If this file controls these stats, then It really has to be directly controlled in the client by adding a new procedure where the character stats are computed and so every client would compute the same stats on their sides (This is how pso works for everything internally). Of course, server needs to communicate that new flag to client. If there are unused reserved space, that could be easy, otherwise idk changing packets sent would seem a bit awkward. Editing the file like this would cause desyncing issues like players not seeing same damage in their screen and etc. Edited March 28, 2014 by mylandra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASSBLADE Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 no you really shouldn't this isn't my server. I just state what can and can't be done from a feasibility standpoint. Also a lot of modifications use my work so sometimes i have to weigh in to provide information or clarity. I'd rather not get involved in the internal politics of another server on what defines balance. That's cool Lee I do appreciate your help and guidance towards this server honestly and i'm sure the rest the server would agree on that one. but i mean come on let's be honest here if you were in my shoes,...actually scratch that,... a normal players shoes just regularly playing this game on this server for the 1st time I think you would be pretty impressed about these changes hehe. =D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echoes Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 No , do not give HUmars/RAmars both SDJZ 15 , they will outclass their female counterparts damage wise , rendering them useless. if they hypothetically do get these buffs , RAmarl only has a slight edge because of Clio and HUmar/RAmar/HUnewearl dont have any j/z weapons aside from the merges. HUmar - Fine HUcaseal - 1450 atp , 230 ata , 1900 max HP Hucast- Fine HUnewearl - Lv 25 S/D ( Not able to use Clio) and level 30 resta. she has 1200+ MST for a reason. RAmar - Fine RAcast - No need to even mention him RAmarl - Lv 25 J/Z (To compliment her ability to use Clio) RAcaseal - 1360 atp , 251 ATA. her tank abilities hinder her more than it is useful so I would leave her HP and DFP the same. FOmar - 200 ATA. FOnewearl - Allow use of MM. 1500+ max HP to tank double-balls from falz FOnewm - Increase his RA tech bonus by 5-10% FOmarl - 190+ ata. Some half-assed suggestions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armando Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) i do not agree with you at all only the fomar part Edited March 28, 2014 by Armando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajex Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 (edited) HUmar - Fine HUcaseal - 1450 atp , 230 ata , 1900 max HP Hucast- Fine HUnewearl - Lv 25 S/D ( Not able to use Clio) and level 30 resta. she has 1200+ MST for a reason. RAmar - Fine RAcast - No need to even mention him RAmarl - Lv 25 J/Z (To compliment her ability to use Clio) RAcaseal - 1360 atp , 251 ATA. her tank abilities hinder her more than it is useful so I would leave her HP and DFP the same. FOmar - 200 ATA. FOnewearl - Allow use of MM. 1500+ max HP to tank double-balls from falz FOnewm - Increase his RA tech bonus by 5-10% FOmarl - 190+ ata. My edits to your notes in blue... Note: I make several mentions of "on my to do list." By "to do list" what I mean is I'd eventually like to release items specific for this particular character class. This of course is up to larva, and he is free to strongly oppose any suggestions I make to veto my decisions. HUmar - Fine Adding shifta would not make hunewearl useless, especially if we release items I have in mind for hunewearl. I have thought about getting shifta added, but I'm sure it would cause controversy. At the every least, I'd like to eventually offer humar a class-specific armor with trap search buit in to make it easier to use DF. This is mostly a good class, so any fixes are a low priority. HUcaseal - 1450 atp , 230 ata , 1900 max HP This class is already on my "to do" list. Hucast- Fine Agreed. Beast enough already. HUnewearl - Lv 25 S/D ( Not able to use Clio) and level 30 resta. she has 1200+ MST for a reason. This class is already on my to do list. Level 25 techs will not happen though. That undermines forces too much. RAmar - Fine I am not considering adding zalure to this character, as it would de-value zalure needle too much. But zalure needle would still be higher level zalure. I'm not sure people would use zalure 15 much over zalure needle. However, I would like to raise his resta level to 20. 1700+ hp with resta 15 is so terrible. (This does not mean we really will add resta 20. It's just my opinion. However it would make a lot of sense and wouldn't greatly impact the game.) Aside from resta 20, I don't think he needs any other changes. RAcast - No need to even mention him This guy is a beast already lol And please no more suggestions for giving him healing traps. That's what gush yasminkov is for. RAmarl - Lv 25 J/Z (To compliment her ability to use Clio) Ramarl is already a good force replacement. Making her techs better would likely make ROCT possible without a force. Not gonna happen. I think she's fine as is. This is already the easiest character to solo the entire game, so boosting her would make the game boring. (Now that I said this, Armando is going to make a big discussion of how racast is better in every way. Shhh before you start, Armando.) Racast is easier in some situations, like dark falz. Overall ramarl is the most soloable class, especially for a novice. RAcaseal - 1360 atp , 251 ATA. her tank abilities hinder her more than it is useful so I would leave her HP and DFP the same. This character is already on my to do list. FOmar - 200 ATA. This character is already on my to do list. Horrible native tech boosts coupled with bad ATA makes him a high priority. FOnewearl - Allow use of MM. 1500+ max HP to tank double-balls from falz This character is already on my to do list. I'd like to give her some good SI tech boosters items to compliment her native boosts. FOnewm - Increase his RA tech bonus by 5-10% This guy is fine. Aside from possibly adding a new force gun later on, I don't think he needs many boosts. Psycho bridge is a good enough boost. I have no further plans for fonewm at the moment. FOmarl - 190+ ata. This character is already on my to do list, but she's not bad. Particularly because of the ease of getting good-stat viviennes and long-range rambling may from the valentine quest. There are so many good items for fomarl already, and she has great native tech boosts. Also, with hylian shield, her grants is beyond any damage any force can put out on a single target. I'll probably prioritize her more in the future, but not in the next couple events. Edited March 28, 2014 by kajex 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choko Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I have to agree with Lee on the prestige issue. While there are certain benefits that can be given, stat boosts really aren't feasible. Disconnecting a non-prestiged player for using a material (when they've hit their level) just isn't a good practice. Since there is no way to make it unavailable to use for non-prestiged players while those who are prestiged are allowed to go over it, it really is counter-intuitive. For max stat boosts, they are in the client, and there is no way to have the server adjust them based on a certain condition (such as being prestiged). What Eden does is give different colored names, and equipment obtainable exclusively from reaching level 200 at each respective prestige rank. I think it may also give other benefits such as having a higher chance at earning rare quests and such, but I'm not entirely sure on that. With the way PSO is set up, I can't really think of a nice method that would have sufficient rewards to motivate people to actually want to prestige. If it were my decision, I'd be more inclined to simply raising the level cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajex Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 With the way PSO is set up, I can't really think of a nice method that would have sufficient rewards to motivate people to actually want to prestige. If it were my decision, I'd be more inclined to simply raising the level cap. Disable Dark Meteor and Dark Flow until you prestige and reach level 200 on a prestiged character. That would do it. (There you go, chuk. Leaving myself open to negative reps so you can stay ahead of me.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choko Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Disable Dark Meteor and Dark Flow until you prestige and reach level 200 on a prestiged character. That would do it. (There you go, chuk. Leaving myself open to negative reps so you can stay ahead of me.) While that may be motivating, I hardly think people would support the idea behind a prestige system if that were the reward. =p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MASSBLADE Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Wow this Topic just gets better and better *Gets Popcorn* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) My edits to your notes in blue... Note: I make several mentions of "on my to do list." By "to do list" what I mean is I'd eventually like to release items specific for this particular character class. This of course is up to larva, and he is free to strongly oppose any suggestions I make to veto my decisions. HUmar - Fine Adding shifta would not make hunewearl useless, especially if we release items I have in mind for hunewearl. I have thought about getting shifta added, but I'm sure it would cause controversy. At the every least, I'd like to eventually offer humar a class-specific armor with trap search buit in to make it easier to use DF. This is mostly a good class, so any fixes are a low priority. HUcaseal - 1450 atp , 230 ata , 1900 max HP This class is already on my "to do" list. Hucast- Fine Agreed. Beast enough already. HUnewearl - Lv 25 S/D ( Not able to use Clio) and level 30 resta. she has 1200+ MST for a reason. This class is already on my to do list. Level 25 techs will not happen though. That undermines forces too much. RAmar - Fine I am not considering adding zalure to this character, as it would de-value zalure needle too much. But zalure needle would still be higher level zalure. I'm not sure people would use zalure 15 much over zalure needle. However, I would like to raise his resta level to 20. 1700+ hp with resta 15 is so terrible. (This does not mean we really will add resta 20. It's just my opinion. However it would make a lot of sense and wouldn't greatly impact the game.) Aside from resta 20, I don't think he needs any other changes. RAcast - No need to even mention him This guy is a beast already lol And please no more suggestions for giving him healing traps. That's what gush yasminkov is for. RAmarl - Lv 25 J/Z (To compliment her ability to use Clio) Ramarl is already a good force replacement. Making her techs better would likely make ROCT possible without a force. Not gonna happen. I think she's fine as is. This is already the easiest character to solo the entire game, so boosting her would make the game boring. (Now that I said this, Armando is going to make a big discussion of how racast is better in every way. Shhh before you start, Armando.) Racast is easier in some situations, like dark falz. Overall ramarl is the most soloable class, especially for a novice. RAcaseal - 1360 atp , 251 ATA. her tank abilities hinder her more than it is useful so I would leave her HP and DFP the same. This character is already on my to do list. FOmar - 200 ATA. This character is already on my to do list. Horrible native tech boosts coupled with bad ATA makes him a high priority. FOnewearl - Allow use of MM. 1500+ max HP to tank double-balls from falz This character is already on my to do list. I'd like to give her some good SI tech boosters items to compliment her native boosts. FOnewm - Increase his RA tech bonus by 5-10% This guy is fine. Aside from possibly adding a new force gun later on, I don't think he needs many boosts. Psycho bridge is a good enough boost. I have no further plans for fonewm at the moment. FOmarl - 190+ ata. This character is already on my to do list, but she's not bad. Particularly because of the ease of getting good-stat viviennes and long-range rambling may from the valentine quest. There are so many good items for fomarl already, and she has great native tech boosts. Also, with hylian shield, her grants is beyond any damage any force can put out on a single target. I'll probably prioritize her more in the future, but not in the next couple events. ROCT has been finished without fo before, it just would make it easier to have a ramarl with s/d 25, which i think roct's debuff is 24 or is it 25?, in any case it nullifies the debuff and buffs your characters (iirc gi gue's buff is lvl 20, and ramarl/hunewearl counters it) so it just make it easier to do it without fo, which is doable. Edited March 29, 2014 by Zero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armando Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) no kajex i already know ramarl is the best solo class in the game any body whos played psobb for a while knows this Edited March 29, 2014 by Armando Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) If this file controls these stats, then It really has to be directly controlled in the client by adding a new procedure where the character stats are computed and so every client would compute the same stats on their sides (This is how pso works for everything internally). Of course, server needs to communicate that new flag to client. If there are unused reserved space, that could be easy, otherwise idk changing packets sent would seem a bit awkward. Editing the file like this would cause desyncing issues like players not seeing same damage in their screen and etc. wouldn't matter the damage numbers only need to work on each client, mismatch would show but it would be purely visual, as i said this is the best case scenario for stat alteration for this silly prestige crap basically not ideal but nothing much else will work anyway. when the kill packet is sent the monster dies regardless of it's hp. A way to counter this would be to restrict prestige players to only play with other prestige players but hell then what's the point, would be better off setting this up for crack mode then prestige in my opinion if you where going to go to this trouble. It's not a file in the client anyway. welcome packet files files are loaded directly in to the primary memory they are only files in the console versions and in the server itself. Basically the client knows nothing about prestige, holds no variables for it we can use, and any work like that would require excessive assembly rewriting the likes of which no one will ever want to do. There is something i can say i never understood from sega though. Why the ranger class has such high hp being as safe as they are, i mean compared to the hunter class. Edited March 29, 2014 by Lee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kom Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 (edited) Kajex I'm sorry but I completely disagree with your methods and I'm going to be blunt here. We are pretty much on the same page in terms of which characters need a boost and by how much it seems. But I have several major issues with the rest of what you are saying: Class specific items to fix imbalance? So that means without a specific item you are underpowered until you get it? So you are forced to use this item and have no other choices? To me this sounds like the worst band aid fix known to man, there is already so little item variety because this server is full of items that have been made to be so imbalanced that everyone just uses them and nothing else, it's really really sad considering all the interesting items that are in the game. Prestige to fix imbalance? So that means certain characters would see prestige a "bonus" to improve their character, where as other characters are forced to either go through this system or be underpowered? And lets face it, this isn't going to hit the game anytime soon, no ones even working on it. If it is implemented then it should be more like along the lines of an item or two that level up as you progress with generic stats like /ability units, if stat boosts are to be included. Other than the fact the first method is easy to implement, I just don't understand why this would the chosen way over a proper fix like altering stats. Once upon a time someone obviously buffed monsters and raised the maximum stats, and it was done with a one number fits all approach to each class. By adjusting the stats again with each character treated separately it deals with all the issues that were created in a more professional manner. Edited March 29, 2014 by kom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajex Posted March 29, 2014 Share Posted March 29, 2014 Forces suck without key items (glide, p wand, etc). It's not like we're going to build those stats into forces and disable those items from the game. I don't see how adding more new items should be any different. Wait till after Easter to complain. It will be our first class-specific items the server has gotten. This isn't a new idea. Even Sega does this (mother garb for fonewm, neis claw for hunewearl, zanba for male hunters... I could go on). Many weak points exist for specific classes. That's what we've been using events for (like adding a good hell gun for hunters last year). Flat out changing stats will always cause debates. Read back to see the backlash when we locked l&k38. That was just an item. Imagine the endless rage if we boosted ata for one class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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