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The future of PSO1


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I think weapons like Katana, Knuckles, and Talis should get a buff though. Nobody uses them at all lol and they don't even compare to the other weapons. That's another thing other than boosting tempest and burning. Imagine Knuckles that you could use to where you punch and it creates an impact and hits all the enemies in the area around you. That might actually make knuckles fun and viable to use.

I believe those weapons you mentioned were fodder in Sega's server, since you needed team points to play Point of Disaster, but right now they are completely useless, one of the mayor problems with ultima since Dark weapons became common are the broken drops too, i mean seriously would you rather hunt all year for Sealed J Sword which may or may not drop, also may drop hitless if it drops in the end, or wait till december and hunt a PGF since hey it's xmas everybody gets a few days off work/school and you have the chance to make a Dark weapon with obviously 50 hit and 50% in 2 more stats thanks to Restless Lion, the drops play a big role in RPG, usually in them you see items that take a life to drop because enemies are rare to hunt and the drop rate is quite low but said item is usually powerful or a versatile item which may prove useful in more than 1 situation, now SJS or TJS plays none of those, it isn't as powerful as DF it isn't as common as DF usually you see TJS being like a Trophy, you look at it in your bank and say a nice weapon to have, but probably not to use, people who have TJS are most likely to own a DF too, as for Handgun Guld/Guld Milla man i support it to be a powerful one i always used to carry it with my RAcast i actually had 2 Guld Milla's and a Hangun Guld that i got from a random run, to me it is an incredible weapon but then you see that yet agian they release new items in ultima which overshadows every single weapon out there except for a few (Yasminkov 9000M, Dark Flow/Meteor, Glide Divine etc.) event weapons are ok to be powerful to be raw DPS weapons, or have useful specials (Dark Meteor having both, and Dark Flow being a sword that can hit 15+ enemies with 1100 ATP which hunters are already the strongest race out there) there seems to be no limit to when are the event items going to stop, or atleast overshadow all the rest of the weapons, i mean Vjaya is one hell of a weapon when it comes to damage but still no one uses because it is more efficient to use Dark Flow and save the meseta for charge mechguns since it is so damn expensive and having a limit of 999k meseta doesn't helps the weapon in anyway and not everyone has enough time in the server like some lucky fellas out there (count me in with both of my accounts) to get the common bank meseta glitch which gave us 1 billion+ mesetas, the drops plays a serious role in RPG, Psycho Raven totally overshadowing Guld Milla/Dual Bird, Ultima Reaper any partisan or most swords, the Arrest Needle lol what's the point to try to get an S rank needle now?

Now as for Dark Weapons, Dark Flow should be 900-950 ATP, and as for Dark Meteor seriously a shot weapon with handgun range and almost the same ATP as Excalibur? when you see users with "endgame" equipment you see them using Centurion Battle (110 is ridiculous, i tried Lee's Item PMT editor and 67 or 69 i don't remember Attack Speed doesn't stuck mechguns combo) and Dark Meteor completely annihilating every mob they encounter, ranger weapons shouldn't be as strong 500-580 would be reasonable +25 grinders it gives 630 ATP, as for the Tempest and other special attacks i believe they would be tough to program them into any weapon or buff them without messing with Techniques, but some tweaks on those specials like having 60% status proc would be cool, also blizzard won't be as useless as currently is.

Edited by Zero
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I'm pretty sure that you have the misconception. Well have you ever used the dark flow special with low health or better yet do you even own one to begin with? 1 hit kills.. And playing with dark weapons is easy dude. I've been playing this game since dreamcast and I can tell you right now that the dark weapons do make the game way easier. And like I said compared the difference between Zanba and Excal, as I said excal is basically an all character weapon with almost 1000 ATP, Zanba has half of that and it's only usable by a couple characters as I said. So clearly something is wrong there.. If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you lol. I mean the zanba is strong but not like excal which it should be considering not everybody can use it.

I had 3 Dark Flows on Eden, 1 on schthack, 1 on GCN, and 1 on Genocide. I know how to use Dark Flow. Im a seasoned DF user. it doesn't 1 hit kill anything. Yeah, maybe the lower tier forest 1 enemies with a zalure 30 debuff might get one hit if you have native on the weapon but there's no guarantee that it will one hit. Besides, it's not a one hit if the special of the weapon has to hit it twice for it to kill them. Therefore not a one hit.

Also, I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but if you did play since the dream cast days, you'd know that in ver.1 and 2, the dark weapons didn't even exist until ver.3, and they didn't combo until late 2008 in ver.4. For DF, you have to be at kill % in order to use the special anyways. So as BK said, you cant just go around willy nilly using the special and killing things easily, you just cant. You have to know the spawns, know what you can take, and know how much damage each enemy can do with what attacks. It's not a user friendly sword by any means. It's a sword with specific uses. I'd implore you to go into a high ranking PSOBB game, in an area like the seabeds in episode 2, and not die more than a single time, and only die in an extreme circumstance. If you can do that you're registered good at using DF. If you keep dying you're not good at using it. There are so many assumptions going on here in your posts where as you assume that you have every single mark hit so the weapon will perform at it's best. You aren't even counting the fact that even with 50 hit the weapon's special still misses high tier ult enemies, where you're actually going to be using it I might add.

It's not like everybody on the server is running around with a DF either you know. If everybody on the server had a DF, I'd be more inclined to agree with you on the nerf department, but it's a rare weapon to have, hard to get, and certainly takes a lot of time to acquire. Try to remember the rarity of the item and how many people actually own the weapon. I'm willing to bet you play a lot more games without any of the dark weapons than you do actually playing with them.

Now onto Zanba and the "excal nerf".. I don't believe that excal deserves a nerf for any reasons. One, because it's hard to find. Only specific ID's and you don't even get excal, you get lame. To which you then have to get 10,000 kills with it to unlock, which takes time. Quite a bit of time, I might add. To this extent, we see that it's a hard weapon to obtain. Also, what we know is that excal was made to be THE saber weapon of the game. Zanba was never made to be THE go-to Sword in the game, although a slight ATA buff to the weapon would do it some good. Excal is THE saber weapon in the game. There's no other saber in the game as good as the excal. Additionally, you're going to be missing a lot in high tier games with a hitless excal anyways. Just like you will be with the Zanba. Without hit, zerk weapons/low ATA weapons will miss quite a bit. This includes all the dark weapons.

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I had 3 Dark Flows on Eden, 1 on schthack, 1 on GCN, and 1 on Genocide. I know how to use Dark Flow. Im a seasoned DF user. it doesn't 1 hit kill anything. Yeah, maybe the lower tier forest 1 enemies with a zalure 30 debuff might get one hit if you have native on the weapon but there's no guarantee that it will one hit. Besides, it's not a one hit if the special of the weapon has to hit it twice for it to kill them. Therefore not a one hit.

Also, I'm not sure if you're trolling or not, but if you did play since the dream cast days, you'd know that in ver.1 and 2, the dark weapons didn't even exist until ver.3, and they didn't combo until late 2008 in ver.4. For DF, you have to be at kill % in order to use the special anyways. So as BK said, you cant just go around willy nilly using the special and killing things easily, you just cant. You have to know the spawns, know what you can take, and know how much damage each enemy can do with what attacks. It's not a user friendly sword by any means. It's a sword with specific uses. I'd implore you to go into a high ranking PSOBB game, in an area like the seabeds in episode 2, and not die more than a single time, and only die in an extreme circumstance. If you can do that you're registered good at using DF. If you keep dying you're not good at using it. There are so many assumptions going on here in your posts where as you assume that you have every single mark hit so the weapon will perform at it's best. You aren't even counting the fact that even with 50 hit the weapon's special still misses high tier ult enemies, where you're actually going to be using it I might add.

It's not like everybody on the server is running around with a DF either you know. If everybody on the server had a DF, I'd be more inclined to agree with you on the nerf department, but it's a rare weapon to have, hard to get, and certainly takes a lot of time to acquire. Try to remember the rarity of the item and how many people actually own the weapon. I'm willing to bet you play a lot more games without any of the dark weapons than you do actually playing with them.

Now onto Zanba and the "excal nerf".. I don't believe that excal deserves a nerf for any reasons. One, because it's hard to find. Only specific ID's and you don't even get excal, you get lame. To which you then have to get 10,000 kills with it to unlock, which takes time. Quite a bit of time, I might add. To this extent, we see that it's a hard weapon to obtain. Also, what we know is that excal was made to be THE saber weapon of the game. Zanba was never made to be THE go-to Sword in the game, although a slight ATA buff to the weapon would do it some good. Excal is THE saber weapon in the game. There's no other saber in the game as good as the excal. Additionally, you're going to be missing a lot in high tier games with a hitless excal anyways. Just like you will be with the Zanba. Without hit, zerk weapons/low ATA weapons will miss quite a bit. This includes all the dark weapons.

I'm sorry but, what ver.4 of the game iirc Blue Burst servers closed around 2007-2008, and iirc again Dreamcast only had 2 versions, while the Gamecube/Xbox version were both versions in one i believe, and the last "version" of the game was Blue Burst, which in a vanilla Blue Burst Dark weapons are still combo locked, alot of weapons in PSO are combo locked originally, Iron Faust, Snow Queen, all 3 dark weapons just to name a few, also there is one mayor flaw in your concept of Balance, just because one weapon isn't made to be the strongest weapon or the most useful weapon out there doesn't mean it should't get a buff, or an OP weapon shouldn't get nerf, also in the original server it was kinda understandable that Lame D'Argent was a much tougher weapon to hunt than in Ultima, in ultima you just wait till HH make a room and hunt it in Max Attack 4dmd, which isn't an official quest, in Sega's server you couldn't donate so you could get a 3 stats Excalibur, or add hit later on to your excal once unlocked, as for Zanba it was a good weapon because it had low ATA just like TJS yes a flaw or a liability in those weapons, but still less tougher to hunt, since the drop rate wasn't as outrageous as SJS since you could get it from Sinow Zoa's iirc, also Lame D'Argent is equipable by Force, which just equip it go to Realms of War and Spam a RA tech and that's it, you keep doing it till you hit the 10k mark, as you said about the Snow Queen in Gamecube you could use most of the weapons without too much trouble about not having enough hit on your weapons, but in Ultima everything is far from close to the vanilla PSO in terms of mobs stats.

Excalibur is ok because it can be used by everyone except of foney and has an insane ATP, but it just hits 3 enemies, would you rather actually just hit 3 enemies when spending a Freeze trap than lets say 7 with a Zanba? you lose time and traps doing that excal is for moments when you missed a couple of enemies and need to quickly finish them off, or in most cases in ultima, lower your hp for DF special, and speaking of, now addressing Dark Flow while the special attack is not needed to actually clean rooms but using the special adds risk but if used correctly you can speed things like with no other weapon could do (Dark Meteor is the clear example that ultima is unbalanced ranger weapons shouldn't be as strong as hunter weapons because it can clean as fast if not faster than DF special in most situations) but unfortunately OP weapons exist and imbalance does appears here and there in Ultima, lets a take a look at the community i bet you that still right now most of the players use rangers instead of hunters and the few people that tried or started with a hunter regrets it later on because ranger are far easier and more flexible than hunters, also saying that not everyone runs in the server with DF isn't quite right as almost every hunter around here knows that the one of the few weapons that can help a hunter keep up in alot of situations with rangers is the DF and alot of people get spare PGF's and give those to their friends, also DF special is better used when enemies are freeze to maximize your chances of keeping the special running all the time, Ultima enemies have alot of evp and also getting swarmed when using DF special isn't a good idea at all.

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I'm sorry but, what ver.4 of the game iirc Blue Burst servers closed around 2007-2008, and iirc again Dreamcast only had 2 versions, while the Gamecube/Xbox version were both versions in one i believe, and the last "version" of the game was Blue Burst, which in a vanilla Blue Burst Dark weapons are still combo locked, alot of weapons in PSO are combo locked originally, Iron Faust, Snow Queen, all 3 dark weapons just to name a few, also there is one mayor flaw in your concept of Balance, just because one weapon isn't made to be the strongest weapon or the most useful weapon out there doesn't mean it should't get a buff, or an OP weapon shouldn't get nerf, also in the original server it was kinda understandable that Lame D'Argent was a much tougher weapon to hunt than in Ultima, in ultima you just wait till HH make a room and hunt it in Max Attack 4dmd, which isn't an official quest, in Sega's server you couldn't donate so you could get a 3 stats Excalibur, or add hit later on to your excal once unlocked, as for Zanba it was a good weapon because it had low ATA just like TJS yes a flaw or a liability in those weapons, but still less tougher to hunt, since the drop rate wasn't as outrageous as SJS since you could get it from Sinow Zoa's iirc, also Lame D'Argent is equipable by Force, which just equip it go to Realms of War and Spam a RA tech and that's it, you keep doing it till you hit the 10k mark, as you said about the Snow Queen in Gamecube you could use most of the weapons without too much trouble about not having enough hit on your weapons, but in Ultima everything is far from close to the vanilla PSO in terms of mobs stats.

Excalibur is ok because it can be used by everyone except of foney and has an insane ATP, but it just hits 3 enemies, would you rather actually just hit 3 enemies when spending a Freeze trap than lets say 7 with a Zanba? you lose time and traps doing that excal is for moments when you missed a couple of enemies and need to quickly finish them off, or in most cases in ultima, lower your hp for DF special, and speaking of, now addressing Dark Flow while the special attack is not needed to actually clean rooms but using the special adds risk but if used correctly you can speed things like with no other weapon could do (Dark Meteor is the clear example that ultima is unbalanced ranger weapons shouldn't be as strong as hunter weapons because it can clean as fast if not faster than DF special in most situations) but unfortunately OP weapons exist and imbalance does appears here and there in Ultima, lets a take a look at the community i bet you that still right now most of the players use rangers instead of hunters and the few people that tried or started with a hunter regrets it later on because ranger are far easier and more flexible than hunters, also saying that not everyone runs in the server with DF isn't quite right as almost every hunter around here knows that the one of the few weapons that can help a hunter keep up in alot of situations with rangers is the DF and alot of people get spare PGF's and give those to their friends, also DF special is better used when enemies are freeze to maximize your chances of keeping the special running all the time, Ultima enemies have alot of evp and also getting swarmed when using DF special isn't a good idea at all.

A lot of what you said I can relate to and understand your reasoning behind at all (although as a side note, next time can you space out your wall of text so it's easier to read? I ended up re-reading like 14 lines of text by accident..)... Ver.1 and Ver.2 are both for Dreamcast, Ver.3 was Xbox/GCN, and Ver.4 was BB. We are currently on ver.4. The reason why I say that they didn't get combo unlocked until late 2008 is because schthack server is an original SEGA server that's still up and unlicensed. Schthack decided to quit SEGA and make his server a private server, which is why I said in the late 2008 a little before Schthack made his server a private server, DF and DM were combo unlocked.

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I'd say about 35-45% of the people that you play with that are decently leveled have DM's and DF's. It's decently common I guess. Of course the newer players aren't going to have them and that's understandable since the event is once a year unless they trade donation tickets for them. But yeah on this server the DF and DM are buffed, you said you played on scht, and eden but the Dark weapons aren't as strong on those servers, as I've played on eden myself.

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I'd say about 35-45% of the people that you play with that are decently leveled have DM's and DF's. It's decently common I guess. Of course the newer players aren't going to have them and that's understandable since the event is once a year unless they trade donation tickets for them. But yeah on this server the DF and DM are buffed, you said you played on scht, and eden but the Dark weapons aren't as strong on those servers, as I've played on eden myself.

DM is buffed on schthack and Eden, Genocide added a buff to them as well. I also had a DM on Crystal Argo where they buffed it as well. it's really not as powerful as you say. But I don't play with anybody that has a DF except Shoutgu. He's the only person I've seen play with a DF so far, and BK-201 is the only guy I've ever played with that had a DM and used it, but we were in vhard so it wasn't much of a showcase in all honesty.

I have to tell you, from the outside it may seem like the weapons are too strong, but on the inside, they're really not that OP. If you actually have one, take a look at how much you're actually hitting with the weapon, take notes. You're not hitting much more than what a TJS hits... And hell, TJS special hits harder than DF special at all stages of the game anyways (inb4 TJS nerf complaints). You can't donate for PGF or any of the dark weapons anymore anyways, so you gotta hunt for it. But regardless of all of this, I'm more than willing to bet that you yourself use an excal in every day hunts and if you had a DF or DM you'd be using it.

Usually people that scream for nerfs are people that act like they don't use the weapons, when in reality a lot of them use them a lot and enjoy using them. If you nerf weapons too hard you put them out of commission and therefore you don't hit hard enough, and that's 1 event item that's not going to be hunted for because it's not worth the time it takes to hunt. If DM gets reverted back to it's original state, it becomes worthless in most scenarios aside from a couple pin point specific situations where it's special can shine; other than that, DM will be worthless. DF I don't even think got buffed, it's basically stayed the same iirc so there's no point in even saying it's OP because it's the exact same way it was in the vanilla game. Hell if you look at DF and excal, they have the same ATP value, but excal hits harder because of zerk. So excal is a stronger weapon than DF at it's vanilla state inherently. But as I mentioned, the excal is made to be THE saber weapon. Best of it's class in the game.

edit: You also made quite a big assumption or guess on the percentage of players that I play with. As I stated, I've only played with 2 people with dark weapons. I don't even think Bridge is worth it to be perfectly honest.

Edited by Auroboro
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Schthack server isn't part of Sega's original server, you said it yourself it is a private server after all, as for Schthack's Dark weapons, they nerfed those weapons because of the utility of the special attacks (DF having 800 ATP, confirmed by a couple of guys i met that are from schthack and came to ultima) and on Eden i once found 2 PGFs in 2 runs with my humar and back then they had 900 ATP i think they nerfed them too correct me if i'm wrong, but Eden had a special event in which you could get a 100 hit SJS or around that much hit, it was Kure-Ji's Deal and believe me people don't hunt PGF that much on Eden back when i played i only remember 1 PGF banner outside of the ones i got, and for DF there are people who actually like to run with the special attack all the time and can use it without dying and can handle way much much better than other people when things appear to go the other way.

People will try to get Dark weapons when event isn't active because they see other players using it all the time without struggling/having any troubles when it comes to "tough" quests, and a damn TJS with hit is almost as much, if not even more expensive than a PGF right now, can you believe a new player hunting down TJS/Zanba (1050 ATP and 40 ATA/438 ATP and 38 ATA vs DF's 1100 ATP and 50 ATA) with hit which is a must in ultima, you could just run the events ultima has work your ass off to get an event item with hit and save up photon drops and other valuable/useful items and trade them for a PGF.

Edited by Zero
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Alright well you're kind of avoiding the main point by arguing worthless semantics over and over again with me. So I guess this conversation is over, now that I know you're avoiding the main topic.

Also, get your stats right, DF has less ATP than that.

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Alright well you're kind of avoiding the main point by arguing worthless semantics over and over again with me. So I guess this conversation is over, now that I know you're avoiding the main topic.

Also, get your stats right, DF has less ATP than that.

WTFJackieChan.jpg

You're the one that has your stats wrong. In fact, most of your posts so far have information that is just blatantly wrong. TJS is buffed on this server to be 950 atp and +50 grind (1050 total). DF is buffed on this server to be 1100 atp. TJS does NOT hit harder than DF does. Excal has 950 atp, and Dark Flow never had that atp, even at its vanilla stats. You even claimed that if the atp values of dark weapons were vanilla that people would not use DM in favor of DB, regardless of the fact that DB is a force only single target single hitting melee weapon that paralyzes freezes and confuses the user randomly. It's also incredibly ironic for you to claim people are arguing semantics(also i can't even parse what your main point is supposed to be), when you pulled the semantic bullshit of dark flow special hitting an enemy more than once doesn't technically count as one shotting even though it is still a single attack, which is the practical way of measuring it. When you make this many posts with this much misinformation+factual inaccuracies, non-sequiturs, and just plain bullshit, then you have no credibility in my book.

b294ea9c48906b156d1fef772af524d70f5d96b4

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WTFJackieChan.jpg

You're the one that has your stats wrong. In fact, most of your posts so far have information that is just blatantly wrong. TJS is buffed on this server to be 950 atp and +50 grind (1050 total). DF is buffed on this server to be 1100 atp. TJS does NOT hit harder than DF does. Excal has 950 atp, and Dark Flow never had that atp, even at its vanilla stats. You even claimed that if the atp values of dark weapons were vanilla that people would not use DM in favor of DB, regardless of the fact that DB is a force only single target single hitting melee weapon that paralyzes freezes and confuses the user randomly. It's also incredibly ironic for you to claim people are arguing semantics(also i can't even parse what your main point is supposed to be), when you pulled the semantic bullshit of dark flow special hitting an enemy more than once doesn't technically count as one shotting even though it is still a single attack, which is the practical way of measuring it. When you make this many posts with this much misinformation+factual inaccuracies, non-sequiturs, and just plain bullshit, then you have no credibility in my book.

b294ea9c48906b156d1fef772af524d70f5d96b4

That Jackie chan made my day xD

Now here is Dark Flow's original Stats taken from pso world

http://www.pso-world.com/items.php?op=viewarticle&artid=518

Here is Ultima's DF stats

20tgsjs.jpg

Here is Eden's DF stats

2w5szev.jpg

I urge you to play in Ultima and get some knowledge about Ultima overall, i mean how much time you have here? a month? i've been here since march 2009, i know pretty much almost every changes that Ultima has been through.

Edit

As a sidenote DM in Ultima has 930 ATP, i really really think you should first play a little more time in Ultima and try those weapons before giving your opinion, i understand you didn't know (if that's the case) that Ultima had different stats for some weapons but seriously you speak as if this were indeed a vanilla server or had minor changes to weapons.

Edited by Zero
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To people that complain about to OP weapons or stuff like dont use them its still hard for a df and a force use to solo things i understand about th DM they should fix the special on it u can shoot thow walls like why play if your goingto do that the whole time.

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To people that complain about to OP weapons or stuff like dont use them its still hard for a df and a force use to solo things i understand about th DM they should fix the special on it u can shoot thow walls like why play if your goingto do that the whole time.

I can agree to this. But honestly, you don't have to play with anybody that has DF, or even use it. But don't ruin the experience for others because you find it easy.

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DF I don't even think got buffed, it's basically stayed the same iirc so there's no point in even saying it's OP because it's the exact same way it was in the vanilla game. Hell if you look at DF and excal, they have the same ATP value, but excal hits harder because of zerk. So excal is a stronger weapon than DF at it's vanilla state inherently. But as I mentioned, the excal is made to be THE saber weapon. Best of it's class in the game.

This can be misleading, in which Fyrewolf responded saying that

I love it when people just insult and don't add anything to the topic at hand anymore, seems very childish to me, its ok to respond to that person, but at least do it in a more mature way, a more constructive post, as of right now everyone is going to label you as a childish user if you keep doing things like that.

To people that complain about to OP weapons or stuff like dont use them its still hard for a df and a force use to solo things i understand about th DM they should fix the special on it u can shoot thow walls like why play if your goingto do that the whole time.

This isn't about "don't like it? don't use it then" topic or anything at all, this is about a major problem in terms of the balance of the game, this isn't like DM can do 3 weapons jobs in one and just bring a couple of more weapons to compensate for its liability, this is about a weapon that can completely obliterate every mob without doing anything at all, what's the point of using a Hunter now? Rangers have the highest ATA in the game, and thus making them less of a pain to learn how to use compared to hunters, also in RPGs Swords are always better in terms of dealing damage over ranged weapons (at least the ones i've played, and pso is in that category) DM is ok to be powerful because yes it can't be obtained all year long, but please let's be honest, a ranged weapon that can hit multiple enemies and have Excals ATP, more enemies than what excal can hit, also heavy attacks push enemies back, and using a centurion battle just covers the weapons liability, which was a slow attacking animation, now with a centurion battle DM became like the best weapon out there, i'm gonna be honest Larva barked at us the users for wanting weapons like LK38/Master Raven combo unlocked because breaking the balance of the game and crap like that, but seeing DM is a slap to the face, its ok to have fun weapons and such, but really PSO is about teamwork, DM breaks that style completely.

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