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question How do stats work on this game?


Limonada
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So how do stats work on this game?

 

Most phantasy star online wikias only tell me generic and obvious information :(

 

I want to know the formulas determining the damage. At first I thought that damage was just: "[ATP x %Bonuses x CRIT???] - [Enemy defenses]", but that doesn't seem to be the case...

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"So, I've figured out the damage formulas from various sources, and confirmed that the damage ranges listed in the perfect guide are accurate.

Damage:

Weapon ATP: WA
Base ATP: BA

Total ATP 
TA = BA*(1 + shifta boost) + WA*(1+ photon efficiency percentage).

Shifta only affects your base ATP, and photon efficiency only affects weapon ATP (which is why it seems nearly useless on mech guns).

Then, the total ATP is divided by five and the DFP of the target is subtracted to get Base damage:

Base Damage 
BD = TA/5 - DFP

Then a normal attack is 0.9 * BD
Strong attack = 1.7* BD
Critical hits are 50% more than this, or
Critical normal = 1.35*BD
Critical strong = 2.55*BD

In short, every 100 ATP is
an extra 18 normal hit damage
an extra 27 normal critical damage
an extra 34 strong hit damage
an extra 51 strong critical damage

assuminmg that normal does more than 0 damage.

The weapon ATP ranges listed in the perfect guide seem accurate. A photon launcher listed as 210-220 ATP in the guide compared to a Varista +5 (165-220) definitely does more average damage, and is more consistent. 

Likewise, Daggers and Parisans are often nearly the same ATP but the partisans more consistent (blade dance is listed at 110-180, Brionac at 150-182; Brionac does higher average damage).


My question is, what is the % chance to hit formula?

I believe the guide when it says that a normal attack uses 100% of your ATA, and that a strong uses 70% and a special 50%, but is ATA also broken into base and weapon components? If so, is the decrease in ATA from strong and special hits only from your base ATA? 
I think that to hit photon efficiency stats only boost weapon ATA, that will be easy to verify.

If anyone knows, or has any Ideas on how to find out how the ATA/ EVP equation for hit% works, I'd like to know.

It would be useful to know what % chance to hit various Mag/Slot/Weapon combos have on various enemies."

 

This is not my work, but I believe it to be correct.

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7 hours ago, Colorado Wilson said:
Spoiler

"So, I've figured out the damage formulas from various sources, and confirmed that the damage ranges listed in the perfect guide are accurate.

Damage:

Weapon ATP: WA
Base ATP: BA

Total ATP 
TA = BA*(1 + shifta boost) + WA*(1+ photon efficiency percentage).

Shifta only affects your base ATP, and photon efficiency only affects weapon ATP (which is why it seems nearly useless on mech guns).

Then, the total ATP is divided by five and the DFP of the target is subtracted to get Base damage:

Base Damage 
BD = TA/5 - DFP

Then a normal attack is 0.9 * BD
Strong attack = 1.7* BD
Critical hits are 50% more than this, or
Critical normal = 1.35*BD
Critical strong = 2.55*BD

In short, every 100 ATP is
an extra 18 normal hit damage
an extra 27 normal critical damage
an extra 34 strong hit damage
an extra 51 strong critical damage

assuminmg that normal does more than 0 damage.

The weapon ATP ranges listed in the perfect guide seem accurate. A photon launcher listed as 210-220 ATP in the guide compared to a Varista +5 (165-220) definitely does more average damage, and is more consistent. 

Likewise, Daggers and Parisans are often nearly the same ATP but the partisans more consistent (blade dance is listed at 110-180, Brionac at 150-182; Brionac does higher average damage).


My question is, what is the % chance to hit formula?

I believe the guide when it says that a normal attack uses 100% of your ATA, and that a strong uses 70% and a special 50%, but is ATA also broken into base and weapon components? If so, is the decrease in ATA from strong and special hits only from your base ATA? 
I think that to hit photon efficiency stats only boost weapon ATA, that will be easy to verify.

If anyone knows, or has any Ideas on how to find out how the ATA/ EVP equation for hit% works, I'd like to know.

It would be useful to know what % chance to hit various Mag/Slot/Weapon combos have on various enemies."

 

This is not my work, but I believe it to be correct.

 

@Limonada
I think dfp is subtracted from atp before it gets divided by 5 actually iirc instead of afterwards, since 5 defense is 1 less damage taken. There's also a few other things missing like Shifta bonus affecting a weapon's ATPVariable but only being applied to the potential maximum and not the base minimum, and things like armor/shield atp being flat bonuses, and the attack multipliers for sacrifical attacks and vjaya (attack multiplier approximations 0.9 normal, 1.89 hard, 3.32 sacrificial, and 5.56 vjaya). I think all of the formulas work quite similarly tbh. The tech formula does the same thing with its ((MST+Techpower)/5) x (boosts) x (Resists) for attack techs and [techpower + [MST / 2]] for resta (MST scales much better for healing, but least important factor in attack tech formula), and I'm pretty sure ata vs evp also does a similar thing with having a /5 in there somewhere. Ata is a bit more complicated though since it does also factor in attack type (100%/70%/50%) and combo bonus (something like 100/125/175 or 100/130/170, not sure exactly)  and whether target is frozen/paralyzed/shocked (-30% freeze, -15% other) in there too, but I believe it's something like (ATA x attack type x combo bonus) - ((EVP x status reduction) / 5) = %chance to hit. Luck determines Critical Hit Rate, but I do not know a formula for it; however I have heard that it is 0.5% at base 10 luck, and 20% at 100 luck, and at least the 100 luck value is pretty easy to confirm as being relatively accurate. And for completion sake, the other stats for elemental resist (EFR,EIC,ETH,ELT,EDK) are a simple % damage resist for Fire Ice Thunder Light and Dark (100 resist = 0 damage. Dark is OHKO attack with Power - EDK = %chance to kill, e.g. ep1 Ob Lily level 16megid vs character with 30edk has a 72-30=42% chance to kill). Elemental resists can reduce the chance to be frozen or shocked by some(but not all) attacks that can cause that. There is also the ESP stat which is a stat on enemies to determine their ability to resist status effects like paralysis/confusion/blizzard/etc.; some things bypass this check, such as frozen shooter and traps.

So damage formula is probably closer to something like :
Maximum Damage
(BaseATP x Shifta) + (WeaponATPVariable x Shifta) + ((MaxWepATP+grind) x Attributes) + armoratp + shieldatp = TotalATP

Minimum Damage
(BaseATP x Shifta) + ((MinWepATP+grind) x Attributes) + armoratp + shieldatp = TotalATP

((TotalATP - DFP) / 5 ) x Attack Type Multiplier x Crit

Note: I'm haven't been completely thorough in checking sweetheart's unique special bonus, so I can't say for sure how that fits in exactly, but it appears to boost WeaponATP based on the number of nearby male characters. I have not checked how this is affected by weapon attributes or weaponATPvariable.

There's a number of things to take away from this. Firstly, shifta primarily affects a characters base atp, so the more atp a char has, the more shifta affects them (most weapon atpvariables are quite small). 3 shifta is 12.6%, 7 shifta is 17.8%, 15 shifta is 28.2% , 20 shifta is 34.7%, 30 shifta is a 47.7% bonus to atp, and 81shifta is a 114% bonus to atp. Hucast benefits tremendously from shifta because of his massive atp pool, s-reds level 3 shifta gives him almost 160 more atp than a hunewearl with 20shifta.

Secondly, while shifta bonus does affect weapon atpvariable and may appear to make some weapons scale well with shifta, this only affects the maximum and does not affect the minimum. Something like a Meteor Cudgel with an unusually high variable (300-560atp, +15grind) may appear to gain a lot of atp after a strong shifta (124atp from 30shifta), it would make it go from 300-560 to 300-684; a demolition comet (530-530atp, 25grind) will not scale on shifta at all. However, even though the meteor cudgel appears stronger without shifta and appears to scale massively higher with shifta (displaying a whopping 856atp with 4way pb), it will still have lower average damage than the demolition comet (578 vs 580), and be very unreliable, since on each attack it will pick somewhere between 300 and 856 as the atp for damage calculation. Potentially can hit more than a demolition comet if you pray to rng, but a 556 atp difference means your damage numbers will fluctuate wildly, whereas demolition comets complete lack of atpvariable will give the exact same number on every hit.

Thirdly, Weapon Attributes are dependent on the WeaponATP. So a relatively weak weapon like a charge vulcan or yasminkov9000 w/charge will not benefit much from attributes, as those weapon aren't dealing damage because of their innate atp, but rather because they are transforming the characters baseATP into 9 attacks with a high sacrificial attack multiplier.

Finally, there is the distinction between flat damage additions and multiplicative damage increases. If you simply do not have access to the multiplicative increases, then high atp weapons with good attributes will add a significant bit of damage. However, as soon as you start to get even a decent amount  (read : lvl 20+) of base atp through shifta's multiplicative increase, the higher attack multipliers of charge/berserk/spirit sacrificials will significantly outscale any paltry extra flat additions you would get from equipping a stronger weapon or having more attributes. Shifta adds so much atp that adding just a little more from weaponATP or attributes isn't actually all that much comparatively to your total, but the higher attack multiplier of sacrificial attacks cannot be matched.

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like the other guy said, just have fun with this game... but you might have your reasons. maybe you are a video game programer and want the same attack results. but jesus man this is not a competition unless im playing a fighting game than yeah bro ima get all in it.

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It may seem nerdy sure, but it really does help to understand what things are actually important and what things aren't. Things like MST having very little effect on tech damage, luck being critical hit rate (and thus an important part of increasing damage), and how shifta (hucast highest atp solo char by a significant margin even with only having access to level 3 shifta), weapon attributes (best on high atp weapons in low shifta situations), and damage multipliers work (sacrificials reign supreme when even moderate shifta is involved) are all good things to understand. Even if you don't have to get into the actual numbers, the concepts are useful to being a better player.

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  • 4 weeks later...

What are the types of damage in the game?

On 7/17/2018 at 8:40 PM, Fyrewolf5 said:

There are 3 types of damage in the game. Elemental Damage, Physical Damage, and Set Damage.

  1. Elemental damage is just fire/ice/thunder/light spells and traps, always do the same amount of damage and is based on your resists.
  2. Physical damage can be blocked, can be evaded, and can critical hit for +50% damage, as well as being reduced by your defense and jellen and such things, and can have some small variances. Weapon variableATP does it for players, but i think monsters have some variance on their attacks iirc.
  3. Set Damage is Unblockable, Cannot be Dodged, Cannot crit, Cannot be reduced in any way shape or form. Jellen does not affect it, deband doesnt help, it always does a set amount of damage.
    Spoiler

    Falz slap on ultimate deals 1100 damage always no matter what. Falz blue balls does 750 damage each time (though can doublehit). Gi gue bomb is always 900 damage (The bomb they shoot at you is set damage. their confuse missile is elemental damage. Hence, jellen does nothing against gi gue since that reduces enemy's atp, which is only for their physical attacks.).

And for completition's sake, the damage that pierces MAG invulnerability window ("self-drain"?).  "Sacrificial damage" from self-damage gear or HP removal like lavis wave / hp wave / berserk / demon / bulclaw 1hp bite / del lily scream / drain wep (soul eater / 3 seals / gael gil / etc.)

On 7/17/2018 at 8:40 PM, Fyrewolf5 said:

[While under MAG invulnerability effect] you still drain yourself when using those.

And you can kill yourself with lavis/girasole while invulnerable haha.

Berserk doesnt kill you though, that just drains you to 3hp then works infinitely (takes 1/4 of your hp, which is <1)

Edited by Limonada
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just to note for clarification, when i said set damage 'cannot be dodged', I probably should have phrased it differently as 'cannot be blocked/evaded through evp'. Simply not being there where an attacks hit can dodge most everything. Set damage ignores your evp and dfp, as well as the enemy ata and atp, it's an unblockable, unmissable, non-physical non-elemental attack that does a set amount of damage, hence 'set damage'. Another way to think of it would be kind of like a non-elemental technique (one for which there is no resistance stat, as techs also don't miss, don't crit, and aren't blockable), like a 'flare' style (non-elemental defense piercing) magic in other rpgs.

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