Jump to content

Midori

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    758

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    10

 Content Type 

Posts posted by Midori

    Ultima Summer Event 2016!

    in Events

    Posted

    @griffeni, I had no intention to make fun of people who haven't found their Soul Boosters yet. You said I could hunt for days and never find it, along with telling us about how many Soul Boosters and Cent/Battles you've found, so I did the same as you and shared my own experience. I don't know your method for hunting Soul Booster, but I can tell you what I did.

    I did the first room of PW4, using the wall trick to help me kill the enemies faster and I would cancel at the end of the room. Each run took around 2 to 3 minutes. I did it solo, but that should be obvious.

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    10 hours ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

    You're saying that 100% dar wouldn't increase the number of drops on the server because those 4 players would solo in 4 different rooms and get the items at the same speed, but that's simply not true. This is due to a number of factors including being able to do better quests that can be done more efficiently, reliably, faster, etc. Time is also not the only way to look at it, it's a derived factor and not the initial one, which is Number of Monsters Killed; time is just a corollary that comes from being able to do better kinds of runs that gets more Number of Monsters Killed / Time Spent, but that also itself isn't the whole story since even different hunts on the same monster can require vastly different gear, skill level(difficulty), effort(workload), attention, coordination, etc. Are you trying to argue that there should be 4 of the item in 60 minutes? Or 6 of the item in 60 minutes since you talk about soloing with 6 accounts so much? Or should it be 24 of item in 60 minutes since all of the players in the room could be multiclienting with 6 accounts? Or better rates than that even so that multiplayer is 'worth it' in your eyes?
    I had specifically mentioned in my post the idea that if the problem is "you aren't getting enough item drops to satisfy yourself with 'enough' stuff so that you feel comfortable helping others get their 'enough' stuff, then all that matters is easier rates". If as you imply here and have stated elsewhere before, the problem you have with multiplayer isn't just 'enough' stuff, but is solely that you think if you solo with multiple accounts that you can get 'more' stuff than if you multi, then the problem is not the rates of the drop system, it's not the rates of the game, it's not the server, it's not the admin; the problem then is you. There is no fair way to make the game be 15-25times more items (i.e. more than 4 people doing 6 client hunts) in multiplayer rather than solo. If your problem really is the 'more' stuff, there is no solution to that. You will never want to play multiplayer with other people in any mmo any more than is absolutely required if your reason for playing is 'I need to have the biggest dick-measuring contest possible'. As long as your problem is just the 'more', then multiplayer will ALWAYS remain an impossibility for you.

    I talked about this problem already but I'll repeat myself for you. If we make multiplayer worth playing, and then as a result of it, more items are dropping overall and it's bad for the game's economy, the solution is not to discourage people from playing together. The solution would be to make the rare item drop rates harder. So let's say item X is dropping 30% more often than before and it hurts the economy. If you make the drop rate 30% harder, that problem is solved. Now we have a game that encourages multiplayer and still has a healthy economy. I can't stress this point enough so I will say it again: If your solution for anything is to discourage people from playing together, you should probably figure out a better solution.

    And I wish people would stop saying that I love the idea of someone soloing with 4 or 6 accounts to get items faster. I am against this! I strongly believe that one person using multiple accounts to get items faster is bad for the game overall and it should not be allowed. If you look at my first post in this topic, I go over this and suggest ideas for solutions. The only reason I use multiple accounts is because it's the best way to play the game. It's the same reason why I solo in general. If the rules were changed to restrict it, then there would be a new best way to play the game. So that means I would still be able to play the game the best way, it just wouldn't involve using many accounts, which would be fine with me. It's a hassle to use many accounts at once anyway.

    Instead of discussing how much or how little the game should punish people for playing together, we should be discussing how to solve the problem of the game punishing people from playing together.

    Ultima Summer Event 2016!

    in Events

    Posted

    5 hours ago, griffeni said:

    @midori you can hunt them nonstop for days and not get a single one and instead get pds , i have gotten 5 pds from gibbles on red before i finaly got one soulbooster

    i have also gotten 8 pds from epsilons on skyly without a single cent bat dropping aswell as 4 pds from morphos on red

    Thanks to switching to Redria, I was able to get the 6 Soul Boosters that I wanted. I think I'm done with Gibbles for this event. Gonna farm CBs to sell now.

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted · Edited by Midori
    typo

    @Larva

    The reason people like me play solo is because we want items, and solo is far superior for items. But that doesn't mean that we can't also want to play multiplayer. We want to be able to play multiplayer and also get items. We want both of these at the same time. Why are you OK with an online game that heavily favors solo? How can you not see that as a major problem? Most players agree with me and want to play multiplayer and still be able to find items at a comparable rate to solo. We are upset that solo is so far and away superior to multiplayer, and would like to see this problem reduced as much as possible. This game should encourage people to play together, not discourage it!

    The current game does not work better for most players. Most players care about items, and once they understand how the game works, they will usually be off soloing in a locked room or maybe occasionally playing with 1 or 2 close friends in a locked room. The only people who argue against us are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that most players care about finding items or they don't understand how the math works when comparing solo to multiplayer. If multiplayer was already worth playing for items, you would be able to explain why using math. But that's impossible since the math isn't on your side.

    If the DAR for the new drop system was 100% or close to it, it wouldn't mean 4x more drops for the server. You are making the mistake of comparing multiplayer to multiplayer. A proper comparison would be solo to multiplayer. If 4 players solo and it takes them 60 mins to find an item, then 4 of the items drop for the server in total. If multiplayer was worth doing, these 4 players would play together in the same room, and after about 60 mins, all 4 players would find the item, so 4 of the items would drop for the server. 4 items = 4 items.

    If we make multiplayer worth playing, and due to many players helping others, people clearing quests faster and items end up dropping a bit too often for the game's economy, the solution would be to make the rare item drop rates harder, not to punish players from working together. If your solution for anything is to discourage people from playing together, you should probably figure out a better solution.

    Also, if you care about this server growing, you would do what you can to improve the game and please the players. As you should already know, there are several other PSO private servers out there, so the better Ultima can become, the better chance it will pull away players from other servers. If this server encouraged multiplayer, that would be a big deal and it would be sure to bring in many new players, along with convincing some old players to return. New players join this server every day but most of them end up quitting after a short time. If the game encouraged multiplayer, it would go a long way in helping to keep them playing. More players means more donations, which means more money for you to keep maintaining and improving the game. It's very much win/win.

    • Like 1

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    Auroboro, that's right. If you go back and read my previous posts about it, I said stuff like "capable of soloing" when doing the comparisons. Of course if someone simple cannot solo a quest, they could benefit from having stronger players carry them through, and in that case multiplayer would have a benefit to them, since something is better than nothing.

    Basically it comes down to this: If you can solo, you should solo. If you can't solo, then you would have to settle for multiplayer. Many players who are capable of soloing would like to be able to play multiplayer without having the game punish them for it, with less items.

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, Auroboro said:

    Okay, so before I begin my two cents, let me just say, Midori, kindly, of course, that farming materials in Normal-Vhard mode does not count as a viable excuse to tell us that Solo is favored over Multiplayer. I say this since that was what your primary argument was the last time. Additionally, your argument mainly favors those who are like you who have 10 billion characters with a million accounts that are all level 200 and have top tier gear. Not everybody is like that. I've been here for 2 years, and I only have 1 character that is level 200 and has top tier gear. If you want your argument to sound remotely fair and just to ALL players, you might wanna stop assuming everybody is exactly like you.

    I know that not everyone is lv 200 with good gear. Solo is better than multiplayer in general, not just for the best players. You don't need to solo with 6 accounts for solo to be better. Just using one account and running a quest like normal is far superior to multiplayer as well.

    Let's take 4 average PSO players. They are fairly weak so it takes them 60 minutes to solo a quest that someone like me could solo in 20 minutes. Are these 4 average players better off soloing or working together? Let's run the numbers and see.

    Look at it from an individual perspective. 60 mins to solo and you get all of the items or 40 mins to play with the others, but you only get 1/4 the number of items compared to soloing. Clearing the quest 33% faster is nice but since you only get 25% of the items, if you look at the big picture, you are getting far less items overall. There is currently a massive gap between solo and multiplayer for items and it affects all players.

    You can make the argument that a weak player could potentially benefit if a much stronger player carries them quickly through a difficult quest, and you would be right. But there is no benefit for the strong player to do so. Maybe if multiplayer was worth doing for that strong player, they would be more willing to help out the weaker player. I don't think it's crazy to suggest that the game shouldn't punish a strong player from wanting to help a weak player.

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    8 minutes ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

    It's interesting to me that so many people do not like that the overall room chance of item is still exactly the same as it is no matter what mode you use. This is something that needs to be stressed, as much as you may want to look at a reduction and think the number sounds really low, you have to remember that for every monster you kill it gets 4 chances to pass the checks, and a possible item from each one. The overall room chances add up to be the same chance to get the items you are hunting for.

    If you guys want easier item rates overall, then why not argue for easier item rates no matter what system is being used? If your issue of playing multiplayer with others isn't that you are scared of ninjas or cant decide who gets the drop, and only that you aren't getting enough item drops to satisfy yourself with 'enough' stuff so that you feel comfortable helping others get their 'enough' stuff, then all that matters is easier rates.

    I'm all for hearing arguments about why both event items and non-event items need easier rates on some of their drops. 

    You are comparing multiplayer to multiplayer. Everyone else is comparing solo to multiplayer. There is an important difference. We don't want items to drop like candy. We want to be able to find items from multiplayer at the same rate or slightly better than we can find items from solo.

    Again to clarify, we are comparing item drops between solo and multiplayer. If it takes us 60 minutes to find item X solo, we think it should take us around 60 minutes or less to find item X from multiplayer. If you want to contribute to this discussion, it would be helpful if you understand the topic at hand. Thanks.

    • Like 1

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    @Virec

    Just because some of the ideas I suggested to restrict multi account abuse aren't 100% guaranteed to stop any and all multi account abuse, doesn't mean they can't make a difference in reducing the problem, or that we should give up on the idea altogether. Like I said before, currently it is far too easy to use and control 6 accounts at once. If players had to use 6 PCs and go out of their way to configure a single controller to work for all PCs at once, some people would be deterred by those hurdles and give up on the idea, myself included.

    Either way, let's continue to work on fixing problems and improving the game. The important thing is that we agree that one person exploiting item drops with multi accounts is a problem, and we share the desire to reduce the problem.

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted · Edited by Midori
    I accidentally a word.

    Food for thought.

    For anyone who thinks it is bad for an online game like this to favor multiplayer, or you think it is bad to have decent balance between solo and multiplayer, you need to ask yourself why it's good for an online game to heavily favor solo.

    And something else strange that I noticed from reading a few thoughts on this topic. If people working together and finding rare items more quickly is a bad thing for the game's economy, maybe instead of punishing those players who work together, a better solution would be to make the drop rates harder for rare items. An online multiplayer game that encourages teamwork should be viewed as a crucial goal to achieve, rather than a harmful thing that deserves punishment.

    • Like 3

    Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    OK, so this new drop system solves the problem of calling dibs on items/item ninjas. That's nice and all but why would a capable player who understands math, play multiplayer in the first place? In order for us to take advantage of the item ninja problem being solved, multiplayer needs to be worth playing. Let's fix this!

     

    We currently have two problems when it comes to items.

     

    Problem: The item balance between solo and multiplayer is way off. Solo is far superior to multiplayer because you get more items in less time. In other words, if you want items, and you are capable of soloing, you will generally get items between 3x to 4x faster by soloing. If you have additional members in your party, regardless of which drop system you use, it means less items for you. With 4 players, on average, each player will only get 1/4 of the items, compared to solo. If you want items, and you are capable of soloing, there is basically no reason to play multiplayer.

     

    Solution: Better item balance between solo and multiplayer. We need a drop system that will give each player their own item, and at a decent enough rate. The goal should be a game that favors multiplayer, or at least a game where you can find items at roughly the same rate regardless of how many players are in your party. Ideally, the DAR would remain the same no matter how many players are in the party, which would mean that the game actually slightly favors multiplayer. But if the idea of an online game favoring multiplayer is crazy for some strange reason, assuming that each additional party member will speed up the quest clear time slightly, a slight DAR reduction could make sense. If it takes 60 minutes to get item X solo, it should take 60 minutes or less to get item X with 4 players. Adjust the numbers as needed to get the best balance.

     

    Problem: One person using multiple accounts to get items faster. This problem has always existed and will continue to exist regardless of how the new drop system works, but it could potentially be worse if we let players quad box with a multiplayer friendly drop system to get items faster. New accounts are free, you can run multiple clients on the same PC, and one controller will control every client. All of these reasons make it extremely easy to exploit the game and get items way faster than normal. I've solo'd with 6 accounts myself and I can get 90 Luck mats or 12 Glide Divines in 1 HH.

     

    Solution: Restrict one person from using multiple accounts to get items faster. One way or another, this needs to happen. Maybe it can be done through software, by reducing the number of accounts allowed to connect at once from 6 to 1 or 2, or disable support for multiple clients on the same PC. Or we can just have a written rule that says something like "One person cannot use more than one (or maybe two) accounts at the same time to get items faster", which means players could still use multiple accounts for things like item transfers or visiting a different lobby. If we allow two accounts, people could still use it for things like section ID and buffs, but more importantly, there would be room in the party for other players, so true multiplayer would still be possible.

     

    Personally speaking, until these problems are addressed, I will continue to solo with anywhere from 1 to 6 accounts, because that's the best way to play the game based on its own rules. I do this because I want to be strong/good at the game, not because I enjoy it. I actually prefer to play with other people, because multiplayer is much more fun and interesting to me. Please fix these problems so players like me can enjoy playing multiplayer and still feel like we are playing the game in an efficient way. Thank you.

    • Like 6

    Ultima Summer Event 2016!

    in Events

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, cyane said:

    There's a lot of feedback of event drops from other players and even in past threads. Take profit of the neat player feedback on events!

    I did. And that's why I thought it dropped for those 3 IDs.

×
×
  • Create New...