Damage comparison of weapons Charge ME Mechs Vs Charge Vulcs, 100 Souls vs Excalibur, impact of Sue's Coat (Damage Calculation included)

[tru]

Well if sues was affected you would probably notice a suddenly very large difference in damage variance for the gatlings, which it did not for me with my 0% ones (the sweetheart testing showed that happening, where the minimum damage was still the same with shifta and 1 male nearby, though I don't think I was quite extensive enough with the testing in other categories to get a low damage roll, it did prove that point in that one anyway). I should test with some D-Parts 1.01 armor too (I still have one in my hucaseal's bank that I was using while leveling) just in case sue's is weird for some reason (it is a server created item after all). My gatlings did have 0 dark, but I'm guessing you had some lucky high rolls on damage with the vulcans, like I said the maximum atp can outscale me/mechs with enough shifta. At the moment I'm feeling kinda lazy, I'll probably see what numbers I'm getting later on.

To solve for the DFP of a monster lets reverse calculate like you suggested.

So we'll use the HUcast with Type ME mechs. He did 663 damage without shifta.

1739+10+60+20=1829

((1829-Enemy's DFP)/5)*3.32=663

663/3.32=199.687951807229

(1829-Enemy's DFP)/5=199.687951807229

199.687951807229*5=998.4939759036145

1829-Enemy's DFP=998.4939759036145

1829-998.4939759036145=830.5060240963855

Now we can plug it back into the equation to check it

((1829-830.5060240963855)/5)*3.32=?

Do the math and it comes out to 663 of course.

So we can assume if this formula was accurate, the Gillchich's DFP would be 830

Testing the other formula

Well let's try that defense value on a FOnewearl with level 30 shifta, and using the same weapon against the same enemy which we know does 226 damage.

(683BaseATP x 1.447shifta) + (ATPVar x 0.347shifta) + (WeaponATP x ATR%) + (Grind x 2) + (ArmorATP) + (ShieldATP) = FinalATP

(988.301)_______________ + (0 x 0.347)_________ + (10 x 1.0)_________ + (30 x 2)___+ (0)______ + (20)______ = FinalATP

(988.301)_______________ + (0) _______________ + (10)____________ + (60)____ + (0)______ + (20)______ = 1078.301

1078.301-810=216.301/5=53.6602*3.32=178.151864

It doesn't work. No matter how you go about it, the formula you are using is wrong almost every time. Somethings are wrong with it.

Testing my formula

[(Base ATP * (Shifta + 1.0)] + [(Minimum Weapon ATP + (Grind * 2)) * (Weapon Attribute expressed as a percent + 1.0)] + Armor ATP + Shield ATP = Total ATP

683*1.447=998.301+(10+60)+20=1088.301-718=370.301/5=74.0602*2.98=220.699396

Okay still 2.5 points off, but it's a lot closer.

Try another one? Hucast with ME mechs without shifta

1739+10+60+20=1829-718=1111/5=2.22*2.98=662.156

The real test showed 663 so less than 1 damage off

It seems shifta is what throws things off a bit so maybe the way shifta is calculated should be slightly changed or maybe shifta affects other parts of the equation.

I agree that making a formula using vanilla monsters stats is a bad way to do things, but the current one we have doesn't work. Overall, it still needs more work and more testing >.<

The best way of making progress the way I see it would be if I could test on the formula on the vanilla game and see if it works there, but I only play pso on this server so I'll have to figure out another way of going about that.

[tru]

Good topic. I currently have a set of maxed Lindcrays for my FOnewearls and I'm wondering if it's worth it for me to get Charge Type ME/Mechguns. If you could compare these two weapons, I would appreciate it.

Sorry it took awhile for me to get back to you on this. I actually did the calculation awhile ago when I was at work, but I brought the paper home and lost it, then forgot XD.

I tested my formula on Ephinea and to my surprise it still works, and the other one you can find online still doesn't work. There quite a bit of evidence showing that my formula is accurate. I still need to test more things to be 100%

As far as the calculations here it is:

All these calculations are done with max attribute of these weapons against Gillchichs with max attack FOnewearl. I didn't include red ring since I assumed you wouldn't have it equipped too often with FOnewearl. I don't have maxed Lindcray and my ME Mechs don't have machine stat so this is based solely off calculations.

Type ME Mechs Charge special (with level 30 shifta)

Normal attack = 76

Special attack = 256

Lindcray (with level 30 shifta)

Normal attack = 336-478 (407 average)

Special attack = 1126-1603 (1364 average)

Assuming most enemies you'll be using N/S/S combo on (of course it depends on the enemy)

Type ME Mechs would do 1764 damage per combo (assuming everything hits and crits aren't involved)

Lindcray would do 3135 damage per combo on average (assuming everything hits and crits aren't involved)

Of course Type ME Mechs have a better chance of critting during a combo since they hit more times, but since they have lower base ata, then more of the shots have a better chance of missing, but if a Lindcray special shot misses all together that obviously greatly reduces damage per combo.

If I could acquire the EVP of enemies I could calculate the percent chance of hitting these full combos against enemies then calculate the percent of crits happening within the combo to give an average amount of damage you could do per combo.

With access to frame data, I could take it a step further and calculate DPS. I'll try to acquire frame data someday.

Overall it seems clear that Lindcray is superior for damage output, but lets test with Zalure involved.

Type ME Mechs Charge special (with level 30 shifta AND level 30 zalure involved)

Normal attack = 137

Special attack = 460

Lindcray (with level 30 shifta AND level 30 zalure involved)

Normal attack = 397-539 (468 average)

Special attack = 1331-1807 (1569 average)

N/S/S combos

Type ME mechs 3171

Lindcray 3606

Now the damage seems a bit closer. If you factor in crits/misses etc Type ME Mechs may actually out-damage Lindcray on average. However, I can't confirm this. It's also worth noting that if you miss a lindcray shot at close range an enemy may be able to punish you, but only missing one shot from a mechgun will not give the enemy a chance to punish you since there will still be two more shots coming out with that attack.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend investing in Charge ME Mechs. It may be more useful than I realize, but from what I see it's not great for FOnewearl. I can think of some situations where it might be good, but I'd have to test it myself to be sure.

[Midori]

Thanks, tru.