So I had this crazy idea...

[Soly]

I would say you would need a more specific evolution function... check against the ID and class used.. i'm not entirely sure but iirc.. there is a special check in the ship for when a mag would skip levels like 49 to 51 ... it would still check that evolution.

If you feed another item at the same level 50 with another ID group the mag changes the evolution, you would have to account for all of those... and would be kinda pointless IMO if your evolution function does that too...

Mag cells are special cases and probably you should have them as that... since you actually need to feed the "special item" for them to evolve... so you can have that as a separate thing.

[nunnbt473]

Yes I know if I feed say Star Atomizer to a baby mag and it jumps from level 9 to 14 it still evolves. And at appropriate levels it checks for an evolution and cross references section ID/stats/level/class ..etc.

"if you feed another item at the same level 50 with another ID group the mag changes the evolution"

If I take the EXACT same mag adn feed it with a different section ID, the existing mag will change. Or are you saying simply that two identical 49s will result in different evolutions based on section ID? The former is what I thought was wrong and if thats the case I need to account for it, if its the later I have already accounted for it.

As for being pointless for accounting for it, well not entirely, because someone could end up in that scenario by whatever reason, in which case things like feeding charts would change. So I want to be able to mimic the ingame feeding process as accurately as possible.

Mag cells are currently setup separately (for the most part). However, I still need to know if its possible for say.. you take a baby mag at level 5. Feed him a Mark 3 and he comes a Mark 3. If he gets to level 100, can he still qualify for the special level 100 evolutions?

Or if I make a Mark 3 and he gets 180 IQ / 120 Sync / Level 120 mag, can he then become Pian? Or is that only for a 'normal' mag? Do Evolutions like 100 (or 110..etc referring to all as '100 evolutions') count as regular or do they count as a special circumstance?

Edit:

It took a little bit of finagling but I got it to check for levels up at each level, applying the evolution if needed, finishing the other level ups, THEN resetting the food type to the new evolution post-extra levels.

Edited July 17, 2015 by nunnbt473

[Soly]

Well.. one thing for sure... when a it is a mag-cell mag.. it wont evolve to anything else unless another cell is used.

What I was saying about the ids is that...you get a mag to level 50 with group A, gain PB (if its not already there) and evolve... then at the same level you feed it with group B, it will change accordingly to the group B evolution this time wont change PB tho.

My main point was like... if you are going to limit each mag type to certain evolution by themselves... it can get ugly... for example a mag cell that works on any mag, will be on every mag type evo check you have.

MagType.Mag can become MagType Varuna, Vritra, Kalki.

You can just have a evolution check code for each evolution level (10 - 35 - 50 - 100) ... and check everything there

[nunnbt473]

Ok so it CAN have a parallel shift in evolutions then. The PB bit is good to know, but I havn't gone back to even touch that one yet.

The way I have it designed, it will be easy to ignore standard evolutions if a mag cell has been used. So no problem there now that I know that limitation needs added.

I actually do have a standard evolution check broken down by level already. However, it was set to check @ 50. Then I had to change it to check @ 50 or greater to account for the possible 'level jump' from multiple stats. Then I changed it to check one stat at a time so I could check levels and check evolutions @ 50 exactly without changing the food group and throwing off the gains. However, from what you're telling me, I need to check level 50 evolutions all the way up to level 200 in theory since level 100 evolutions aren't a sure thing.

Well level 35/2nd evolution is based on the level 10/1st evolution class. However it is also stat based. So do 2nd evolution (35-49) have parallel shifts?

Level 10s evolve based on class Hunter/Ranger/Force so I dont need to keep checking them I assume? If I feed it with a ranger from 9 to 10. Then give it to a force, it will stay its current evolution yes?

[Fyrewolf5]

Once a mag goes rare (ep 2 formula mag or cell mag), it stays rare unless a few very specific other cells are used on it. Things like Master System becoming Genesis, Genesis becoming Saturn, Rukmin becoming Geung-Si (from a Tablet mag cell), etc, and also the Ultima and Ashura(Elenor) mag cells can be used on any mag at any time (you can use and ashura on an elenor mag even to make it become elenor.....again). Those are only specific edge cases though, a rare mag will not change to any other mag under normal circumstances.

You need evolution checks at 10, 35, 50, and every level multiple of 5 after 50 (55, 60, 65, 70, ...., 195, 200). Regular Mags after 50 can evolve every 5 levels (not at any level in between) based on any changes in stat balance, character class(hu/ra/fo), id group(group A = vspry viridia skyly purplenum redria yellowboze, group B = gbkow greenil blueful pinkal oran whitill). Once a regular mag becomes a level 100 formula mag(or ep 2 mag or 4th evolution mag as it's sometimes called), it is a rare mag and stays that way, no cell mag can become a formula mag. If it did not become one of those rare formula mags at 100 due to wrong stats, it can become one of them at a later level multiple of 10. It still evolves every 5 levels, but it can only match the formula correctly every 10 levels (can't balance 5 levels with 2.5 on each side haha).

I once tried to take a level 10 mag and move it to another char class after the evolution, but I can't remember what happened though. With the 35 evolutions, yes they do include stats, however, there is no way not to have dex be the highest stat without raising def. Thus the level 35 evolutions are almost always the same and get pilla, unless you are doing specific single stat mags like 15/0/0/185 mind mag or 12/188/0/0 mag (even my hucast mag plan of 6/178/16/0 will have dex be the highest stat at level 35 lol). Some people do occasionally make 185 mind mags though, if they can't/won't make an easier 195 cell mag that is. 99% of the time though the 35 evolution is surya/tapas/mitra with pilla pb. It's just not possible to have dex not be the highest without significantly raising def.

If you take a level 50 mag and move it to a different char for a different evolution, it will evolve immediately while still at level 50. Sometimes they can be a bit finicky and change will not want to stick after a block change, for unknown reasons. I have done it before to evolve for the correct mag for a mag cell before, and once the cell is used it's always stuck then, but i have once before tried to evolve somebody's 200 mag into a garuda for a striker coat, have the cell have a use option, but been unable to use it, and the mag revert from garuda back into previous evolution after block change (eventually had to get gm to fix it). Idk why this happens, mags can sometimes be very weird.

Another example of mags being tempermental, you never want to raise a mag to 5 def 45 dex 45 pow or mind when making one of the ep 2 formula mags, at this level (with two equal, in this case 45, stats) the mag very often doesn't know what it really is. The player will see it evolve into one thing client side, however the server may register the mag as a different evolution. When this happens, the player can feed it foods and it looks like its feeding for the class he sees, but for the server the mag is the other evolution and is feeding it differently, often resulting in the player gaining unwanted stats because of it. It's always advised for a feeding player to change blocks before+after every evolution to be sure that it saves properly, but it can still do this sort of thing if the stats are at values like that. Last time this sort of thing happened to me I had to ignore what the mag was telling me onscreen and fed it the foods I knew it should be eating until it reached a level to fix itself, it's pretty annoying.

[nunnbt473]

Ok so Rare = Cell or EP2 Formula.

Which EP2 formulas are you referring to specifically?? Every mag has a formula of some sort. Are you referring to level 100+ formulas?

Cell mags can only be changed by (select and very particular) cells.

4th evo/lvl 100 can only be changed by cells.

Def 45 evolutions for forces, are those special/locked like rare mags are? Or can they too later become something else (without using a cell that is).

1st evolution/10

2nd evolution/35

3rd evolution/50 (can occur any/every 5 levels after 50 up to 200). Non Cell Mags

4th evolution/100 (can occur every 10 levels after 100 up to 200). Non Cell Mags. Makes 3rd evolutions impossible (no go back down the chain).

I once tried to take a level 10 mag and move it to another char class after the evolution, but I can't remember what happened though. With the 35 evolutions, yes they do include stats, however, there is no way not to have dex be the highest stat without raising def.

"unless you are doing specific single stat mags...

Those 'unless' moments are the ones I need to account for. That 1% occurance. Otherwise I have a mag feed program that just spits out wrong stats .

It's just not possible to have dex not be the highest without significantly raising def.

Unless as you said, youre making something like a single stat mind mag. So it IS possible dex is not the highest stat..etc.

Ultimately the only problem with your recent post is that its based on 'good form' and I have to aim for 'every possible scenario' to get the program proper. If someone wants to experiment with new builds or make a slightly lesser build to check the stats simply because its faster, it still has to be accurate

If you take a level 50 mag and move it to a different char for a different evolution, it will evolve immediately while still at level 50

So merely equipping a mag is enough to result in an evolution change?

I feel stupid for even asking, but define block change?

As for mags being weird and funky, I can tell just from the way you are describing it, that it was a poor code design on when stats are truly saved / refreshed. And whether server or client handles the changes. Typically its good practice to let the server handle everything and then just inform the client. However, I can understand why with multiple episodes and platforms ..etc why the design could become so muddled or have minor things over looked.

As for the confusion over the '45 stat'. Well I don't even know how that was managed. It likely just means that the client is using almost identical code to the server, but not exact. The irony is that so many errors happen because of copy/paste moments, but if they had done a copy/paste an error like that (in theory) should never have happened. Unless of course someone different wrote the client and server code, but if that was the case Id expect a lot more little errors like that to pop up.

ANYWAY, I've digressed. I almost have the information I need to finish the first stage of it. Er again, for real this time.

Edit:

Just realized equipping isn't adequate based on your statement. It has to be fed, but does not have to gain a level. OK

Also just realized what a 'block' is. Basically a game login (well not technically since you can do so within the same ship)

Interesting Note, Vayu is a 2nd evolution/level 35, but is placed in a level 50 food group mix according to PSO-World. Curious if that's actually the case. It definitely doesn't fit with the 'predefined' structure.

Heres a stupid question.. can you still feed a level 200 mag? When you die don't you lose sync or something like that??

I made a Whitil FOmar. Fed a baby mag dimates until it evolved to a Vritra. Transferred it to a RAnger and fed it a monomate. It did NOT (re) evolve on feed. The level 10 evolutions are (semi) permeant.

Edited July 17, 2015 by nunnbt473

[Fyrewolf5]

If you have a level 50 mag and move it to another char that would change it, it doesn't immediately evolve on equip, just as soon as you give it any kind of food, I probably should have been clearer on that. By formula mag, I am referring to the episode 2 mags / 4th evolution mags as they are also called, the sato/nidra/pushan/etc ones you can get at level 100. The special def>45 force evolution mags should be just like the other regular 50+ evolutions (you can even get bana on group b hunter mind>pow>dex). The reason I spoke about what is "good form" was mostly to give you an idea of what the important thing to focus on getting right for that section was, there certainly are the other cases that need to be added. I've not ever made a Vayu before, but I've never encountered any errors in the feeding charts so it should be accurate. When you change blocks(even to same block) at the counter in lobby, it resyncs you to the server and saves your data, so you can see what the server thinks about your mag as well as help prevent any number of bugs related to desync. You can feed a level 200 mag, and mags lose 5% synchro when you die (though since synchro is just offensive pb damage, it's often ignored, IQ is more important for wonder twins power to activate).

Edited July 17, 2015 by Fyrewolf5

[nunnbt473]

Nah you were pretty clear. Its just after digging through dozens of files, crawling through web page after webpage, reading post after post. My mind gets a bit worn down and my focus slightly divided. I just didnt catch it all the first time through. Which, naturally, only compounds the problem haha.

Alright, that does help clarify the terms and help me mentally separate it all out a bit. That is curious that bana can be gotten by a hunter, doesn't make it quite a special then. And since that 2 out of the 3 'special' force mags. Meh. So I guess that 3rd one probably can flip flop around the level 50 evolutions then.

Though I notice those sites leave out alot of the 'little' details. Like it says 45 def, but I think its actually 45+ def. Then again another site implies it only occurs at exactly level 50 based on a google image of a table of data I found. Ugh, I dont know.

Well, the way the under lying program is designed, I can't really effectively target a 'case' or evolution very easily. Usually if I can say get 1 level 50 evolution working, getting the next 50th evolution takes all of 5 minutes after that. Its just the variables level, class, sectionID..etc. are each measured. So I have to check A then B then C.. or C then A then B, the order doesnt matter. But once I check them, I have to do like the tables do and create an outcome for each possibility. Really in a nutshell it comes down to getting the first one working is usually the hardest part, after that its busy work getting the rest of them in order. Then with new features its back to the thought grind.

I also noticed on one of the PSO pages that it said (I think some of the levels or 100s, cant remember) were identical to another chart used. It then had a 'copy' of that chart below on the same page. However, looking at the two in depth showed them to be different even though they were said to be the same. I ended up making the two for now. Its a lot easier to go back later and change a 0 to 1 then it is to trace all the combos to figure out what chart it was supposed to be. So I am curious if there will be any errors there.

So when you feed a level 200 mag I assume it just changes sync? and evolution if the character class/sex changes?

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For the inquiring minds that want to know, the first couple of tests have already gone out. Right now the basic feeding/evolution seems to be on track, but every time I say that three things seem to break, so it'll be a bit longer before I start putting out 'stable' usable versions per say. At least a few more days. For those who have interest in it, its currently designed to work with the .net Framework 4.0. I could realistically create a framework 3.5 or 4.5 if needed, but ultimately it will need some version of the framework for the way its designed now and will continue to be designed for the foreseeable future.

Edited July 18, 2015 by nunnbt473

[nunnbt473]

Well the prototype is.. more or less, ready. I'm looking for a handful of testers for the prototype. Hopefully the Mag Feed simulator is is functioning properly (though quite a few mag combos have yet to be tested). Along with a history of items fed..etc.

At this point I want to make sure it runs on a variety of systems. Feeds properly. If its so ugly that looking at it makes you want to throw your computer out a window and yourself out the other window on the far side of the house.. that sort of thing.

There are a lot of little various features that have yet to be added, like PBs/mag abilities, but I'll get around to them eventually.

[nunnbt473]

Just as an FYI. Well I've had a functional version out for the basic mag evolutions for a couple of weeks now. I've un-offically dubbed it version 1_0_9.

It effectively handles all the feeding / evolutions / cells correctly. Tracks/Displays information on feeding/evolution. And can save/delete the mag. Includes a feed timer (experimental) and a section ID calculator.


It'll be a little while. But right now I am in the process of converting all of the internal data to be read from .txt files so they can be easily read/changed by the user. Adding mag abilities. Adding photon blasts..etc. All the extra little goodies basically, so that one will be a little while still.

Shoot me a PM if you're interested in the program (uses .net framework 4.0).