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tru

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Posts posted by tru

    Ask a quick question, get a quick answer

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    26 minutes ago, O9B066 said:

    It's cool you took the time to help people understand %'s but your example isn't the best. The best way to show what %' s can do would be isolate a dark bringer on ult with two of the same weapon one 0 dark the other 100 dark take one shot. 

    Your examples are three entirely different weapons and each has different attributes so there's no comparison with these test subjects. 

    I don't have 2 type me mechs so I couldn't do that. The ATP between type me mechs and Vulcan are pretty close so it does make a pretty good comparison. I did do comparisons using the same weapon for other tests like I did with Excalibur since I had 2 (one with 100% and one with 0%). 

    image.png

    • Like 1

    Ask a quick question, get a quick answer

    in Phantasy Star Online BB General

    Posted

    On 12/8/2017 at 11:50 PM, snail_lord said:

    how much do charge weapons (mostly mechs, but also wondering about ones like vjaya or fury of the beast) benefit from percents? wondering if it's a worthwhile investment putting %s on cyas besides hit

    As fyrewolf mentioned, attribute %s scale based on how much ATP the weapon grants so the fact that charge vulcans add such a low amount of ATP the benefits will be minimal. I created a forum topic showing how much damage maxed percent charge me mechguns can do in comparison to 0% charge vulcans if you wanna check it out. 

     

    gbCpqPq.png

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1

    Noob/HP disappeared

    in Technical Support

    Posted

    4 minutes ago, Cyane said:

    I'll be having a look at your accs, if you can post those shots would help a lot :3

    Okay I'll be home from work in about 7 hours so ill post some afterwards. The gc number for the other acct is 42144568.

    Noob/HP disappeared

    in Technical Support

    Posted · Edited by tru

    11 minutes ago, Cyane said:

    No pictures? D:

    As I mentioned I don't have a picture of all 8 in one screen shot because I typically keep 4 per account and I'm not even sure if all 8 would fit in one screen shot. I can attached a picture of 4 later if needed. Maybe even 2 different pictures of 4 if needed from the different accounts. I have 9 total. I'll have to check to see what screenshots I can find.

    Noob/HP disappeared

    in Technical Support

    Posted

    GC# 42146721

    Happened about 10-15 mins before I posted this.

    I logged in today for the first time since May and when I went to withdraw Noob/HPs from my bank 1 disappeared. I had 4 on my character and tried to withdraw 4 not realizing I already had 4 in my inventory, and when I went to withdraw the 8th one, it said the connect had been lost and now the last one is gone. I already had 30 items in my inventory when I withdrew the 7th one so I think that's what caused the issue. I don't have a picture of all 8 noob/hps in one screen shot, but I can attach screenshots with 4 if needed.

    Thank you

    Ultima Price Check Thread

    in Trade Center

    Posted · Edited by tru

    The reason why things in real life devalue over time is because, unlike in a video game, things in real life deteriorate and go bad and break over time. In a video game, you don't get that same deterioration, things stay the same quality no matter what you do. That's the sole reason why you see items in life devalue, no other reasons exist.

    To say that items in this game devalue based on just basically owning the items in generally would mean you'd have to exponentially devalue really valuable items just based off of ownership alone. For example, if you trade around a DF to 3 other people, that DF's value is drastically reduced. Suddenly that DF goes from being worth 600 DTS to being worth only 100. Or, to be more fair, judging based off of your consistent devalue that you have of 40%, it's more along the lines of 77.76 DTS (if my high school level math is right) If you're wondering how I got that, you have to devalue the item by 40% every single time for each ownership. That's 4 people it is devalued 40% by. That's not even including the other forms of the items supposedly being able to be devalued by.

    The only way for any item to have devalue numbers is if EVERY ITEM has them, but clearly nobody is going to be selling a STA for 20 DTS now are they? Therefore, there's no such thing as item devalue numbers based off of ownership or any factors this game has. An 80 hit DF is an 80 hit DF no matter who owned it or how many, therefore it's still worth a ton.

    I think we get it Tru, you wanted an ego boost so you made a niche little price check thread where only you can give out "accurate" price checks on items that you think should be priced a certain way, we get it tru, we do; but it's getting to the point where you're just plain wrong a lot of the time. The Ultima Official Price Check thread is as Saith said, still active and open to suggestions. If you feel like you need to make a suggestion on prices, it can be and should be negotiated there, in that thread. This thread, well, is kind of pointless to the community and only serves to boost your ego.

    I think you're a great player tru, but even you have to admit this is getting a little ridiculous.

    I already said before. If people are just going to act negative a GM can just close this.

    People said the current price guide thread is outdated and they wanted an updated one. They appreciated the idea of me starting one. Plenty of people were asking prices all the time and they didn't have a thread they could go to. This was my version of that idea. That way people could discuss prices of items (especially ones with stats).

    If you don't like it you could always not post. People like you have come here time and time again just to cause drama.

    I'll be honest, I didn't expect all this drama. I didn't make this to boost my ego (I'm not sure how it even would).

    I never said the value of items decreases as you hold onto them. If anything, the opposite is likely to happen with some. I didn't say they lose value by 40%.

    I would prefer if a GM locked this.

    It's best to avoid negativity.

    Thank you.

    • Like 3

    Ultima Price Check Thread

    in Trade Center

    Posted

    Cars are a physical item that degrades, and yes driving it even 1 mile does devalue a car alot but it's not the same thing as a digital item and doesn't even come close to how far off your pricing is. You did the same thing to baranz launchers (10-15 dts, over 20dts of value in it) and last swans (15 dts, 25-30 dts of value in it) and other weapons. Many of your other valuations go the other way and are over what it would take to make them such as 0 50 50 0 hundred souls being 15 dts, but maxed ones being 130-135 dts (for that one 15 + 105 = 120 dts could max out that hundred souls). There's no consistency to it.

    Regardless it's a poor argument, things like me/mechs aren't going to be worth way less than what it takes to make them. Even if you did want to argue that someone could just make it themselves with dts instead of buying someone's pre-made ones, they still would have to go out and acquire the me/mechs, and even someone did offer a deal to secure the sale, then one still wouldn't take off nearly as much value as you do. Your pricing isn't just giving a discount to entice buyers, it's slashing the prices by way too much. A baranz launcher is about 25-35 pds with 50hit base, and there are some around with 75hit; if someone wanted to entice a buyer they sell it for ~20 dts or only slightly cheaper, since for 20dts one could only get a 70hit baranz at best, but they don't just sell it at less than half the value (you valued at 10-15dts, 10dts is less than half the value of the baranz). Like I said before, if you were taking off 5/10% off it would be one thing, but when you take off 30/40/50%+, that's doing bad pricing.

    Common sense dictates you don't take 50% off of the price of a digital item just because somebody added more value to it.

    Use whatever example you want. Things don't sell back for the full amount you invest in them. If you think they lose value by 5-10 percent of what you invest in them. No exceptions. Then that's fine, I'm not gonna try to change your mind. But I will tell you that's not the way things work. Look at transactions and that will indicate otherwise. Some weapons only lose a little bit of value (5-10%) and others lose more.

    The fact of the matter is if you look at what things actually sell for, and people actually buy for, they are much more in line with the way I value items then how you value them, and there's insurmountable evidence to prove that.

    You're not giving someone "good advice" by telling them that TJS is worth 100-150 pds. They'll waste their time if they try to buy for that, and they'll waste their item if they end up selling for that.

    This thread is to indicate what the prices of items are now. As in if you want to buy something, and if you wanted to sell something, what are reasonable expectations for prices. These prices are based off my experiences in the market and actual transactions that have occurred. Not like your prices where you just guess based off your opinion. What you think it should be valued at.

    You say "Well people are overselling/underselling and overbuying". That doesn't help people. If literally everyone on the server is buying TJS for more than 100-150 pds and everyone is selling TJS for more than 100-150 pds then it's worth more than 100-150 pds right now.

    Ultima Price Check Thread

    in Trade Center

    Posted · Edited by tru

    "Someone could just save their dts and buy a blank one" is not a convincing argument. There's no reason to not value the stats into the weapon at all. If someone chooses to buy a blank weapon and save his dts for something else, well they don't get the stats that they didn't want to pay for now do they. If they want one with stats then they will have to pay more than they would for a blank one (there are players willing to pay for statted things). If you were taking off 5/10% of the price that would be one thing, but you are devaluing by 30/40/50%+ on many things; stuff doesn't just get discounted like that.

    I'm not saying stats don't affect value at all. I'm saying that when you invest in weapons you're unlikely to get your full investment back, and for some weapons the return on investment can be harsher than others. Psycho Raven is a bit of an anomaly because there's no other event weapon that is that easy to get while being that effective and blank.

    It's similar to when you buy a car. If you buy a new car the second you take it off the lot and drive it a few miles the value goes down tremendously. Is that fair? No not really, but that's how it is. The same is even true with a used car. If you buy a used car off craiglist for $8,000 then you decide you don't like the tires and buy nicer tires for it that's not gonna increase the value of your vehicle by the amount of the tires. If the tires that were on it were worth $100 a piece and the tires you put on it were worth $500 a piece that doesn't mean the car is worth $10,100. People just want the car, and they would rather buy the $8,000 car with $100 wheels then buying the exact same car with $600 wheels for $10,000 That's common sense. The value of your car may increase with nicer tires, but not for the full amount you invested in them.

    Try selling anything back. In most situations it's worth less.

    It's one thing if you think my valuation on certain weapons with added stats is too harsh. It's another thing if you think the weapon is worth (and will sell) for the full price you invested in it plus the base price of the weapon. That's what your price checks indicate. Common sense dictates otherwise. As does numerous transactions throughout PSO history.

    Ultima Price Check Thread

    in Trade Center

    Posted · Edited by tru

    No, I just mean in general. Wasn't aiming that at anyone. It doesn't make sense. And no I was referring to a 40 hit hypothetical. It just doesn't make sense to devalue weapons that have stats added to them.

    I would say it mostly has to do with the fact that people like having the freedom to use their dts for what they want. In the case of maxed weapon I can definitely understand why they would be valued less because you can't move stats of maxed weapons so if you get a machine+dark SOV when you wanted a Native+A beast SOV (because you intended to use it against bosses like Gol Dragon, Gal Griff and De Rol Lie), you wouldn't want to pay as much for it. In the case of Type weapons (and other weapons you're forced to find blank) let's say someone is selling an 80 hit Charge Type ME Mechgun for 85 dts (60 for hit+15 for me mech+10 for charge special), even if you did want a Charge ME mechgun with hit you may not wanna invest the full amount to make it 80 hit immediately, and by not buying that one, you would have the option of shopping around trying to find a cheaper blank type me mechgun. I do see what you're saying how the return on investment can be harsh sometimes, and it some ways it seems harsher than it should be, but the fact is; you have to find someone who wants the exact weapons with the exact stats you invested in, even then, they could just invest in it themselves and have the freedom of increasing the stats and hit when they want, how they want, and most of the time, you're not gonna find someone who wants the exact weapon with the exact stats you have when you want to sell it, so you lose money by selling it cheaper so you can invest in a weapon you do want. It would be wise to trade a weapon someone invested a certain amount in, for a weapon you invested the same amount in that you want, but unfortunately, things don't often work out that way. (Except in the case of dark weapons). There's also the case of bad investments. If you max out some not-so-good weapon lets say demolition comet. You don't deserve getting the full amount you invested back because that weapon (even maxed) is outclassed by black king bar (and others).

    • Like 1

    Ultima Price Check Thread

    in Trade Center

    Posted · Edited by tru

    Even if you think you aren't going to get full investment back (lol), you are devaluing it by over 40% on many items, and that's more than a little silly.

    You valued a PBC and PR 40 hit at the same price. That's not just not getting "your full investment back", that's just plain bad.

    I assume you're referring to this http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php/topic/25975-official-ultima-price-check-thread/?p=149379

    and this http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php/topic/25975-official-ultima-price-check-thread/?p=148913

    ?

    That was 40 dark not 40 hit. Maybe 25-30 dts instead of 20-25 dts would've been a more fair assessment. PBC used to be around 10-15 dts but when there are considerably less they start selling for 20+. People aren't gonna pay significantly more for one with 40 dark (even though that 40 dark had to be invested in), because they just want the weapon. It's similar to dark weapons. Let's say the going rate for DM is 300. People aren't likely to buy a maxed DM for 365 dts because they really just want the weapon. Obviously stats matter, but a RAmar without DM is gonna be significantly less effective than a RAmar with DM. I would say if a newer player wanted a PR for their HUcast (which makes a big difference on how effective they are) and they had a choice to buy a PR for 20 dts or one with 40 dark for 37 dts (almost twice the price), they would pick the first one and save their money to invest in other things.

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