Midori
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Posts posted by Midori
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Stark 1, I noticed you downvoted all of my recent posts here. Feel free to post and explain how I'm wrong.
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Let me try better to explain how Saith has no idea what he is talking about. He is trying to trick us and that pisses me off.
Let's use Red Ring as an example and compare the current game to a game with the new optional drop system:
Currently, you can solo (doesn't matter how many accounts you use) and have a 100% DAR for RR. If you do 4 player, you basically have a 25% chance of RR because you are racing against the other players for it. With the current game, solo is 4x better than multiplayer.
After the new drop system is added, you can solo (with 4 accounts) and have about a 200% DAR for RR. If you do 4 player, you have roughly a 50% chance of RR. With the new system, solo is 4x better than multiplayer.
So you see, worst case scenario, things stay the same. However, if you look at the big picture, it would be better with the new system. For one, most players are not going to bother soloing with 4 clients because it's a pain in the ass. For most people, 4 player will only be about twice as bad as solo. Plus you have the large added benefit of not having to deal with fighting over the same rare item.
Math > Saith
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@Saith
You are right that this new drop system won't solve the general problem of having an online game that favors solo over multiplayer, but it's a step in the right direction. Unless we also restrict or remove the ability to multi client, soloing with multiple accounts will still be best.
But you act like the current game has no problems. What is your reason for lying about how the game works and trying to somehow fool us into thinking the current game favors multiplayer over solo? You are totally wrong about that. The stuff you are saying about "stealing banners" makes no sense, so I don't even know how to respond to that. Maybe you don't understand how the drops are determined or how statistics work. You are trying really hard to come up with problems that don't even exist and it only shows your lack of understanding for PSO and math. You also seem to be ignoring the fact that it will be OPTIONAL. If there is a situation where using the classic style is better for people to find an item, you can still do that.
What this new drop system will do is make multiplayer better in a few ways. For one, we won't have to worry about racing to items, calling dibs or dealing with ninjas. Instead of all that bullshit, we can just work together and whatever drops for you is yours. There is no confusion or debate over who gets the item. The other improvement (depending on what the DARs end up being) is less of a punishment for playing with more people. If we go with the same DAR numbers as Ephinea, you will be roughly twice as likely to get an item with 4 players, compared to the current system. For the people who are going to play multiplayer anyway, this is a better system.
So while this won't solve the general problem of the game favoring solo over multiplayer, since most players don't multi client, it should have an overall positive effect on the game. If we really want to solve the problem, we would need to figure out solutions to the multi client problem at some point. In the meantime, we can at least play multiplayer and have it be decent, instead of terrible.
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Oil Tea, yahho~!
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Thanks for reading and posting, Larva.
It's fine to reduce the DAR with each party member who joins. However, the rates need to be decided carefully. If the rates for the new drop system are really bad, there will be no benefit for anyone to choose the new drop system over the classic one, and we will be back to the original problem of having an online game that heavily favors solo over multiplayer. We don't want rare items to be super easy to find. We just want multiplayer to be worth doing.
If 4 players want Red Ring, they should play together in the same party, not solo in 4 different rooms. At the very least, multiplayer should be pretty close to solo, even if solo still ends up being a little better. However we need to tweek the numbers to accomplish this, let's figure it out.
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The Soul of Steel quest is not in One Person mode. It's actually in multiplayer mode.
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OK Saith. I'm going to stop arguing with you for now. This thread is supposed to be about how we can improve the game and make the multiplayer better, not a debate over if the game favors multiplayer or not. If you want to continue, please send me a PM and we can argue a bit more in private.
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HH just started
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Saith, you can have any opinion you want but what bothers me is how you straight up lie about the game favoring multiplayer. Knock it off. It's obvious to anyone who has experience with this game that it favors solo over multiplayer.
Look at your weak arguments. You actually argued that multiplayer is better than solo because if you solo, you get so many items that it floods the market and reduces the value of items. Wow. Solo is so good that it's bad? Really now?
And then after that, you argue in favor of multi client. But wait. I thought multi client lead to flooding the market with items and destroying their value. So which is it? You don't make any sense.
And why would limiting or disabling multi client punish people who solo? You can still solo. You should only need one client to solo, right? No one is saying we should remove the option to solo. We want the option to play multiplayer and still get items. If most players prefer multiplayer, doesn't it make sense to encourage multiplayer?
There is nothing stopping you from soloing either. If multiplayer becomes worth doing, you can still solo if you want. Even though players like you are in the minority, you will always have the option to solo. Maybe it won't be as efficient as multiplayer, but it makes sense to do what is best for most players. We want this server to grow and improve, don't we?
Again, you can prefer solo all you want and have the opinion that solo is awesome and it should be vastly superior to multiplayer. I disagree but that's fine. Just don't lie and expect to fool me into thinking that the game actually favors multiplayer. We both know that's not the case. You can argue that RoCT favors multiplayer but what about the other 99% of the game? And even if we are just talking about RoCT, wouldn't it favor multiplayer even more if we didn't have to fight over the items along the way?
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I don't solo because I'm a selfish asshole. I solo because that's the best way to play the game. That's not my fault. I'm the one who is arguing for the game to actually favor multiplayer. You guys make it sound like I'm the bad guy because I want to play with others and not be punished for it. Just because the game was designed to allow up to 4 players to play together doesn't mean it favors multiplayer over solo.
If I want a Red Ring, and I can solo TTF in 15 mins, please explain to me a better method that involves multiplayer. Prove me wrong. I want multiplayer to be better than solo, so if you guys are right about soloing being inferior, please teach me the superior multiplayer methods. Thanks.
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@FyreWolf5
You seriously think the game favors multiplayer over solo? I have 3000 power mats from soloing with 6 accounts over the past few days. I get 90 luck mats or 12 Glide Divines in a single HH from soloing with 6 accounts. If multiplayer is superior to this, please tell me how. I thought I was making money faster than any other player on the server but according to you, I am better off playing multiplayer and having the other players ninja the items instead. I don't understand.
Even if we ignore the multi client thing, solo still wins. I can solo TTF in about 15 minutes. If I play with others, we will clear in roughly the same time, but my chance at picking up the Red Ring is 1 in 4. How is multiplayer better again? Are you playing the same game as me?
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@Soly
You are right about limiting multi client being a problem for multiple people in the same house. Maybe we could still allow many connections from the same IP address, but just add a rule against one person using multiple clients to farm items faster.
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The only concern I'd have over it is people quad-logging for more drops. Also, making the rate harder as more people join would hurt the point of pso2 drops. It wouldn't want to make me hunt with others any more than I already do. If people really want their drop, they're still going to do it solo or with a friend. Honestly this would only drive Midori's point home of solo play being more favorable over multiplayer, at least with pso2 drops on.
Well, if the game still ends up favoring solo over multiplayer, at least we wouldn't have to fight over items when we do play multiplayer.
Allowing multi client support was a bad idea. Limit it to 2, or disable it altogether. The only time we should be allowed to use multiple accounts at once is to transfer items. I've literally farmed about 3000 power mats over the past couple of days because I solo with 6 clients. It's stupid. I want to use one account and play with other people instead.
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If Larva doesn't understand how having an optional individual drop system can improve the game, he needs to have it explained it to him by someone who does. As long as Larva is open minded, it should be possible to get him to understand.
The only reason I can come up with why someone would be against it, would be if they think that PSO should favor solo over multiplayer and they don't care if the majority of players disagree with them. Hopefully Larva doesn't feel this way.
Larva, if you are reading this topic, please post and tell us your thoughts.
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I'm glad someone not in the staff made this topic. He already gave Soly a big fat "No".
Being totally honest, the largest issue (aside from how damn ridiculous the prices have gotten on dark weapons due to the ridiculous drop rate and only being available once per year) on ultima is that we have events with absurd drop rates so everyone plays solo. Being able to hunt with friends and not bitching about who gets the drops would make the lives of the staff and the fun of the community much better. It's absurd to not consider this.
If what you are saying is true, I would strongly consider switching to a better PSO server over it. If the person in charge of the server doesn't have the desire to improve the game, that's really bad.
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This is the most important thing that Ultima needs. If we could get individual drops, then we could convince new players to join this server instead of one that is currently superior.
We already know that most players prefer that the game favors multiplayer over solo, so having individual drops would help with that. I'm really tired of soloing most of the time. I want to play multiplayer and not have the game punish me for it.
I'm not sure this is accurate but I heard that the reason Larva is against having individual drops is because he doesn't want to change PSO from how Sega did it. Ignoring all of the other changes that have been made on this server, if you look at PSU and PSO2, we know that Sega thinks that PSO's default drop system is inferior. It's safe to assume that Sega themselves would have eventually implemented a better drop system if they stuck with PSO for longer.
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HH 178 mins left
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Well if you don't have secret tickets, I don't think there is any point to it.
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Is it called グッドラック？ This means Good Luck. It's a quest where you can use your secret tickets to get prizes, I think.
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The /bank command will toggle your bank from character and common. The character bank is for that specific character only, and the common bank is shared across every character on that account. You toggle the bank to common, put your mag in the bank, change characters, toggle bank to common, and take the mag out.
Should Larva implement PSO2 style drops along with classic style?
in Phantasy Star Online BB General
Posted · Edited by Midori
@Saith
If you aren't a liar, then you are ignorant. I thought you were knowledgeable about the game and smart in general, so I assumed you were knowingly being deceitful to us. I'm sorry to hear that's not the case.
The whole point of the new drop system is to make it better than the classic system for multiplayer. So of course it would be silly to play multiplayer with the classic system. That's not a problem. It's a solution. If 4 people are working together to get the same item, and one player gets 2 of the items before someone gets the item, that's totally fine. That will happen sometimes and the player who didn't get their item yet shouldn't be upset. He has the same chance of getting the item as everyone else. Also, the player who got 2 items could choose to give 1 to the other player if they wanted. It's the same thing for when people solo in separate rooms. If you are soloing for Red Ring and you see 2 banners for Red Ring go to the same player, do you get angry? If you understood that everyone has the same chance, you shouldn't have a problem with it. The whole concept of "banner stealing" makes no sense. Just because someone else gets the same rare you want doesn't mean it prevents you from getting the rare.
All of the crazy problems you tried to come up with to how the new system would discourage teamwork and multiplayer could be solved if you use the classic system, or they would exist in both. If you are really that paranoid about people not being honest about what items dropped for them, you can use the classic system. It shouldn't even matter what items they got anyway, since those aren't your items. If they want to give you items, they can. If an item drops for them, it's theirs and they can choose what they want to do with it. If having an extra player join would decrease your chance of getting items, you can ask them to leave, lock the room or use the classic system. The classic system has potential problems too, you know. Maybe we should just shut down the entire server because there is a chance of problem.
If the 4 players don't race for the Red Ring in TTF, because 3 of them agreed to give it to 1 player, it still sucks because those 3 nice, helpful players are essentially being punished for their good deed. Wouldn't it be nice if everyone could help everyone at the same time and have everyone benefit?
The drop rates wouldn't double because most players don't multi client. Most players solo with 1 account, so if they started doing multiplayer with the new system, they would actually get items twice as slowly as before. Sure, some hardcore players will solo with 4 accounts for twice the rares, but overall, it's likely the server will drop about the same number of rares or maybe less. If it does end up that many players solo with 4 accounts and items are dropping too often, the solution would be to restrict multiclient and/or reduce the drop rates, not make the game favor solo over multiplayer even more.
Multiclient is a problem. To prevent one person from using multi clients to get rares faster, we should restrict it in one way or another. We could disable multi client on the same PC, which means people would have to go through a much bigger hassle to solo with 4 accounts. If they had to use 4 different PCs, they wouldn't be able to control all accounts with the same controller anymore. People with big families or dorms can still play because each person has their own PC. Another idea is to just have a rule that says one person can't run quests with multiple clients. That would pretty much solve all of these problems instantly.