A harder difficulty

[Larva]

Hi can we soon get a update about this matter and plans?

Hi, the plans as now is to balance some more the economy. Not actually to change the game aspects.

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[Virec]

And when will this balance take place?

[Joseph Hararah]

And when will this balance take place?

Bump

[Lemon]

Bump

This is a big issue. Don't rush him into a decision that hasn't been thought all the way out.

[BLACKR0B0T]

I'm new here so I don't expect my opinion to have much weight behind it. From what I can tell...

The whole enemies have huge evasion makes having as much hit as possible (at times via DTs)

Exp boosts are pretty significant. I have only been playing for one month casually and have multiple level 100+s
Certain drops have been altered so that some are easier, others, more difficult. Now I know a lot of online quests make it easier to farm for certain items ( i remember getting my psycho wand took no time with i was online on the GC version), and there don't mind the drop rates.
With all this in mind I feel that drop rates (outside from minor tweaking here and there) is fine. My foreseeable issue will be with hitting lvl 200 and not even being fully geared (endgame) I don't want this game to feel like the diablo series games where getting to max level is a breeze and then the real fight starts at max level, and I feel that may be the case.

This is just my option, but I'm all for longevity. I like the fact that I can play this game for years casually and still not be max level. I always liked PSO for the fact that you always had multiple things on the table.
If I had a say, I'd tone down enemy evasion to make farming 100s of the same item to finally get a good one with hit unnecessary. Maybe instead give enemies either higher hp or resists (my FOnewm flies through ep 1 and 4 and he has nothing except a few god minds and a hildeblues) I'd also maybe take the xp gain down a bit. Those are just my thoughts. I'm not sure about how difficult implementing such features is, Either way I like that this server isn't a cake walk and that's why I chose it over others. (that and the first day I was on the music was a weird cat version of space-magic fly and then music from a korean cartoon called larva was on after that.. now, say what you want about my music taste but I was sold!.. no more sonic music plz...)
Anyways I'm sure things will work out for the best. Looking forward to any upcoming changes

[Misombre]

Hi, the plans as now is to balance some more the economy. Not actually to change the game aspects.

Fixing the economy ? I don't see what you're talking about. The economy is just as it has been designed by events : a sharks market.

Perhaps some people will wonder about what a "sharks market" is, but they should not, for it's right there under their eyes.

The true question is : how to make a sharks market ?

Like in every markets, some items have a fixed range of prices. This range can vary, but it's still kinda "fix" on the short term.

Now there is also certain items that are virtually available on this market, but practically unbuyable. Ya know, it's like wanting to buy the castle where the market take place. You "could" do it in theory, but it would cost you a lot and at the end you need to get the agreement of the owner (who will most certainly ask you for another castle/manor/palace in exchange).

Now on Ultima those "virtually unbuyable items" are the following : PGF, SoV, Lindcray, Glide Divine v00, Centurion/Battle, etc.

They are characterized by three things :

- They don't have fixed range of price, as soon as an event is over, the price will explode

- People will not want to let it go

- Unlike normal items which can pretty much always be "bought", those one will be more likely traded for other "virtually unbuyable" items (making it a close market between the biggest hunters)

At this point, some people may thing : "Oh man, you're so full of s..." Or am I not ?

1. Events make some items available for a short period of time.
2. During those periods, it is most of the time possible to buy/trade those items.
3. Now what's going on once events are over ?

Tom (let's call it like that) suddenly has items that will not be available at all during one big whole year. Items which are very useful and not easy to find. So yeah, Tom want a good price on it. A very good price, Tom want a big compensation. But is that even possible ? I mean, this item is unique after all and sooo strong...

Sharks market happens when it becomes hard to put a price on something and when the supply of this something is really low. The shark in this story, Tom, is the one who hold the market between his fangs. Point is that fishes (who do not have any "virtually unbuyable items") cannot trade with sharks (not fairly at least, I mean, if it has to cost you a flipper, drop it).

Only sharks can.

---

The way events have been designed have made this place a sharks market.

(Take this demonstration with a grain of salt, it is of course over exaggerated... ... or is it not ? you tell me)

Please consider when reading me that I don't hold any grudge against the current system. This is barely an explanation (probably wrong moreover ^^), not a rant.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Misombre

[tru]

Fixing the economy ? I don't see what you're talking about. The economy is just as it has been designed by events : a sharks market.

Perhaps some people will wonder about what a "sharks market" is, but they should not, for it's right there under their eyes.

The true question is : how to make a sharks market ?

Like in every markets, some items have a fixed range of prices. This range can vary, but it's still kinda "fix" on the short term.

Now there is also certain items that are virtually available on this market, but practically unbuyable. Ya know, it's like wanting to buy the castle where the market take place. You "could" do it in theory, but it would cost you a lot and at the end you need to get the agreement of the owner (who will most certainly ask you for another castle/manor/palace in exchange).

Now on Ultima those "virtually unbuyable items" are the following : PGF, SoV, Lindcray, Glide Divine v00, Centurion/Battle, etc.

They are characterized by three things :

- They don't have fixed range of price, as soon as an event is over, the price will explode

- People will not want to let it go

- Unlike normal items which can pretty much always be "bought", those one will be more likely traded for other "virtually unbuyable" items (making it a close market between the biggest hunters)

At this point, some people may thing : "Oh man, you're so full of s..." Or I am ?

1. Events make some items available for a short period of time.
2. During those periods, it is most of the time possible to buy/trade those items.
3. Now what's going on once events are over ?

Tom (let's call it like that) suddenly has items that will not be available at all during one big whole year. Items which are very useful and not easy to find. So yeah, Tom want a good price on it. A very good price, Tom want a big compensation. But is that even possible ? I mean, this item is unique after all and sooo strong...

Sharks market happens when it becomes hard to put a price on something and when the supply of this something is really low. The shark in this story, Tom, is the one who hold the market between his fangs. Point is that fishes (who do not have any "virtually unbuyable items") cannot trade with sharks (not fairly at least, I mean, if it has to cost you a flipper, drop it).

Only sharks can.

---

The way events have been designed have made this place a sharks market.

(Take this demonstration with a grain of salt, it is of course over exaggerated... ... or is it ? you tell me)

Please consider when reading me that I don't hold any grudge against the current system. This is barely an explanation (probably wrong moreover ^^), not a rant.

Well I don't think it's impossible for a change to be made to at least balance out the economy a little bit. I think events should last longer and we should get drop tables. Very simple fixes. Events should last one and a half to two months imo, and pgf and sta should be available through the entire event, and if they aren't available during the entire event, we should at least know exactly when it is available. It kills the hype when the GMs don't tell us anything. While I genuinely think that would make a slight impact on prices (make them lower) the real issue is something I can't think of a way to fix.

When PGF was available via donation for 65 dts, that set the price for the rarest item in the game (apart from sta) at a price of 65 dts, so by default everything else (that doesn't have insanely high stats) will be worth less. Taking PGF off the donation list was bound to increase the price, and overtime if the server continued to flourish the price would get out of hand (which it is right now), and the fact that they made it ridiculously limited last year just exacerbates this issue to an absurd extent. The fact that the price kept rising meant the people who really wanted it and who were willing to fork up the cash for it had to pay ridiculous amounts (hundreds of dollars) since this continued to happen DTs flooded the market and caused inflation.

It's just like if the U.S. government decided to print a ton of new money and give it away. That's bound to cause inflation. The dt isn't worth as much as it used to be. And even if PGF was easier to get people still wouldn't wanna lower their prices as much as they should since they've seen it being worth around 500 dts for so long.

[Fyrewolf5]

Thing is, you mention things like lindcray and glide divine v00. Those things were the among the easiest drops of any event we've ever had, just behind PoST and Soul Booster. They're also either extremely restrictive (lindcray), or not actually all that good (glide divine v00, si- techs are still highly situational). These shouldn't be expensive items, plenty of them dropped during the event(even c/battle is actually decently obtainable, players that hunts seriously in summer can get a half dozen easily). The only reason people are trying to charge alot is because everyone has gotten super greedy. They think the can rip off some newbie that doesn't know better and overcharge the fuck out of it. They're only worth about 10dts based on usability, availability, viability, difficulty, comparison to other options, etc. Same thing happened to Proof of Sonic Team, PoST isn't worth 30-40 dts, but that's what people were trying to sell them for before easter because they thought they could catch some ignorant rich buyer for it. The item valuations aren't based around what the next big spender to show up and drop a few hundred on donations will throw at it, but about how the items compare to each other.

The valuations are made so that people know how much stuff is worth in relation to other stuff, but everyone is trying to get far, far more than that, they are setting prices at 2-3 times the actual value items, and that's just kinda fucked up. I blame the people setting these kinds of prices more than anything. What happened to PoST exemplifies that completely, one newbie purposely overpaid 40dts for a PoST in, stated he knew he was overpaying for it but just wanted to burn some money, and suddenly everyone tried to triple the price of PoST overnight. Absolutely nothing else had changed, people just got $$ eyes and lost their marbles, and it's spread over to other items since then. The items themselves aren't the problem, it's the people; rather than competing against each other and trying to secure the sales by having the best price, they're all just trying to squeeze as much as much as they can out of their victims.

I want to reiterate that lindcray and glide v00 are some of the easiest to get items we've ever had, and one of them isn't even good, like, at all (si- techs are basically never useful), and we had more than enough of them drop in the event; the items aren't the problem, it's the people.

[Misombre]

You can't change the people.

Moreover people are barely a part of the problem.

Perhaps since there is "inflation" with the DTs, the price should be raised to something like 1 DT = 2 $

But will that stop newbies from overpaying like crazy when they want something ? I don't think so.

I agree that Lindcray and Glide v00 were not hard to get.

Anyway I know my list is bad. Perhaps I should have put only PGF, SoV and C/B

But can you get them now ? I saw a Glide at 40 DTs recently but point is that no one was selling it.

I think you're mistaken about Glide v00 not being useful, but that's only my two cents and I guess we're not all playing the same way. Personally, I would mention : tower (del lily, Ill Gill, etc.) and Falz (last shape).

You think people greediness is an issue. I would take it the other way though. People who are ready to pay anything are the problem. Am talking about those people who just come to this server, barely played and spend hundreds of hundreds of dollars. They want it, they don't know the value. And since they want it "now !", they will pay the price. This is the issue. DT are the issue. Paying is the issue. Or is it ?

In another hand, if items were available all year around, there would be more on the market, and there will be no sharks anymore. Only fishes everywhere.

In my demonstration, what I didn't explain is : if you own it, no matter how you're acting, you're a shark. You didn't choose to be a shark, you don't have the choice. At the very moment you get your hand on one of those "must have" items, you are a shark. Because you cannot sell a DW 65 DTs. You cannot sell a n00b/hp 5 PDs. You cannot sell a Centurion/Battle 35 DTs. (when events are off ofc)

If you do, someone will buy it right away and 1) resell/trade it for 2/5/10 folds what they "worth" 2) keep it for themselves until next event at least.

Now do you care if you sell your power/mat 15:1 and someone buy it off you and resell it 5:1 ? Not that much, you might be pissed but no one cares really. Now do you care if you sell a clean SoV 20 DTs to someone who will sell it 150 DTs ? More than the potential 130 DTs that you missed, you now no longer have the item for one year (assuming you will find it next time) and if you want to buy a super event item, you cannot offer enough.

So basically, we are forced to enter this shark category.

Greediness exists. Is that being greedy to play by the rules ?

I, Misombre, am not greedy. I can tell you =) However, I am a shark for sure since I got a few valuable items.

How do one knows he's part of the shark company ? Ask yourself those questions :

Would I even consider selling my super items for PDs or DTs ? If no, you're a shark.

Would I consider trading my super items for regular items (like a good bunch of it with good stats, plus some PDs) ? If no, you're a shark.

Can you put a honest price on your super items (not based on what people payed last for it) ? If no...

Would you trade your super items for other super items ? If "yes" or "probably", you're a shark.

You don't need to fit all the question, one is enough.

(PS : I don't have anything against sharks )

@tru

Taking PGF off the donation list AND making it Christmas only. It is bound to those two. If you remove from the donation list but make it all year around, the price will be high but not insane. If you let it on the donation list but make it Christmas only the price will be the one from the donation list. If you put it on the donation list AND all year around available, the price will drop a little more each year.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Misombre

[tru]

You can't change the people.

Moreover people are barely a part of the problem.

Perhaps since there is "inflation" with the DTs, the price should be raised to something like 1 DT = 2 $

But will that stop newbies from overpaying like crazy when they want something ? I don't think so.

I agree that Lindcray and Glide v00 were not hard to get.

Anyway I know my list is bad. Perhaps I should have put only PGF, SoV and C/B

But can you get them now ? I saw a Glide at 40 DTs recently but point is that no one was selling it.

I think you're mistaken about Glide v00 not being useful, but that's only my two cents and I guess we're not all playing the same way. Personally, I would mention : tower (del lily, Ill Gill, etc.) and Falz (last shape).

You think people greediness is an issue. I would take it the other way though. People who are ready to pay anything are the problem. Am talking about those people who just come to this server, barely played and spend hundreds of hundreds of dollars. They want it, they don't know the value. And since they want it "now !", they will pay the price. This is the issue. DT are the issue. Paying is the issue. Or is it ?

In another hand, if items were available all year around, there would be more on the market, and there will be no sharks anymore. Only fishes everywhere.

In my demonstration, what I didn't explain is : if you own it, no matter how you're acting, you're a shark. You didn't choose to be a shark, you don't have the choice. At the very moment you get your hand on one of those "must have" items, you are a shark. Because you cannot sell a DW 65 DTs. You cannot sell a n00b/hp 5 PDs. You cannot sell a Centurion/Battle 35 DTs. (when events are off ofc)

If you do, someone will buy it right away and 1) resell/trade it for 2/5/10 folds what they "worth" 2) keep it for themselves until next event at least.

Now do you care if you sell your power/mat 15:1 and someone buy it off you and resell it 5:1 ? Not that much, you might be pissed but no one cares really. Now do you care if you sell a clean SoV 20 DTs to someone who will sell it 150 DTs ? More than the potential 130 DTs that you missed, you now no longer have the item for one year (assuming you will find it next time) and if you want to buy a super event item, you cannot offer enough.

So basically, we are forced to enter this shark category.

Greediness exists. Is that being greedy to play by the rules ?

I, Misombre, am not greedy. I can tell you =) However, I am a shark for sure since I got a few valuable items.

How do one knows he's part of the shark company ? Ask yourself those questions :

Would I even consider selling my super items for PDs or DTs ? If no, you're a shark.

Would I consider trading my super items for regular items (like a good bunch of it with good stats, plus some PDs) ? If no, you're a shark.

Can you put a honest price on your super items (not based on what people payed last for it) ? If no...

Would you trade your super items for other super items ? If "yes" or "probably", you're a shark.

You don't need to fit all the question, one is enough.

(PS : I don't have anything against sharks )

@tru

Taking PGF off the donation list AND making it Christmas only. It is bound to those two. If you remove from the donation list but make it all year around, the price will be high but not insane. If you let it on the donation list but make it Christmas only the price will be the one from the donation list. If you put it on the donation list AND all year around available, the price will drop a little more each year.

I agree that it's not the fault of people overselling their items and being "greedy", because as you said, if they sold them for a low price someone would buy them and resell them for a high price. Unfortunately those who have the easiest time taking advantage of those who undervalue their items are rich people who have hundreds (or thousands) dts just sitting in their PMs. If someone sold their CB for 25 dts, a rich person would just buy it immediately and resell it for 100 dts.

Making DTs cost $2.00 per 1 dt is an interesting idea. I think another interesting idea would be if they temporarily disallowed the purchase of DTs. Then the ones in the current market would be worth more of course. They would get transferred from player to player until people redeem them, and eventually DTs would be much more scarce, then they could allow for donations again. You would think this would just cause things to go back the way they were, but I feel like the inflation would be gradual and it would take awhile before things got out of control again.

[Misombre]

Yes perhaps DT's purchasing should just be enable once in a while. Like one week per month you could bought DTs.

What I fear however is that people will just buy more during this period so that they don't run out when it's disabled.

What would be more realistic on the long term, it is to put a limitation on how much DTs each people can buy every month.

I mean this idea would be stupid if it was a game supposed to bring money to the creators/hosts/owners.

But it is not the case, donation is not supposed to be a salary but a way to keep the server alive.

Since there is so much people now willing to pay, I don't think it would be an issue if, say, there were a cap, a limitation of 50 or 100 $ per month per person. That along with 2 $ for 1 DT would really have an impact. Now is that impact going to be good, am not a soothsayer.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Misombre

[tru]

Yes perhaps DT's purchasing should just be enable once in a while. Like one week per month you could bought DTs.

What I fear however is that people will just buy more during this period so that they don't run out when it's disabled.

What would be more realistic to my mind, it is to put a limitation of how much DTs each people can buy every month.

I mean this idea would be stupid if it was a game supposed to bring money to the creators/hosts/owners.

But it is not the case, donation is not supposed to be a salary but a way to keep the server alive.

Since there is so much people now willing to pay, I don't think it would be an issue if, say, there were a cap, a limitation of 50 or 100 $ per month per person. That along with 2 $ for 1 DT would really have an impact. Now is that impact going to be good, am not a soothsayer.

That's a good idea. I think it would still be a good idea to disable to the purchase of dts for a little bit that way the economy can stabilize, then make it to where there was a limit per month.

[Zynetic]

I don't feel like reading the posts but event-only drops that are considered endgame are a terrible idea in general. People shouldn't have to wait or shell out 924580248509824 DTs to be able to get an item, they should be able to constantly work towards goals at their own pace. Make things take a while, don't make them easy but only during a certain timescale.

It doesn't matter if the event drop is easy, I don't want to wait 10 months to be able to actually farm something worthwhile. This is a huge issue because a lot of the normal items are unwanted due to how overpowered the Ultima items are, making it hard to trade unless you directly buy DTs.

Edited May 1, 2016 by Zynetic

[Berrymilk]

PSO2 did a great job.. being that you do 500+ runs on a single boss and the random person who joins gets drop on their first try of the day/week.

PSOBB Ultima ensures that you will get that item! One month out of the year > PSO2's year round drop rate!

Edited May 1, 2016 by Berrymilk

[BLACKR0B0T]

Comparing anything to PSO2 is a bad idea. Why compare anything to something that bad. Set your bar higher.