Feedback on Latest Drop Chart (TriForce 2022)

[IronSheik]

Good day hunters.

 

The latest drop chart had some pivotal changes, the main one being direct user input rather than having a middleman re-enter data that's submitted as posts in the forum. 

 

Other additions include: 

- # of reports per day

- Leader Board

 

Understandably, this is a much different way of doing things, and some people were uncomfortable with it. Despite the major change, we had a total of 423 reports to date, which leads me to believe that the community was pretty receptive of it.

 

This is an opportunity for you to sound off and let me know what your thoughts are. Did you enjoy it? Is there anything that could be done better? 

[Lobotomy]

I think the change has some positives, but also substantial negatives.

 

On the good: I suppose this method gives you waaaaaaaaay less work (?), which is very nice. Furthermore, having a close to up-to-date drop chart thanks to the manual input is very nice.

On the bad: Manually inputing is terribly tedious. The more items you want to input, the worse it gets (e.g., I would never take the ordeal of inputing every non-event). The system is poorly done. U don't use any kind of criteria to order monsters, for instance (like A,B,C,D...), so finding some things can take some time. Meanwhile, making a post is super easy/takes a few seconds.

Overall, I prefer the old ways. However, I have no complaints since u are giving easy access to the info anyway.

Appreciate the effort sheiky.

[Elstinko]

I much prefer this new method and greatly appreciate the work you've put in getting it going.

[Smoochum]

2 hours ago, Lobotomy said:

U don't use any kind of criteria to order monsters, for instance (like A,B,C,D...), so finding some things can take some time.

The monsters are grouped by the area they appear in and then ordered alphabetically within it.

[wontrice]

i enjoyed it. these drop charts are so much thankless work that whatever you gotta do to make em better for you is the way to go. thanks for doing these every event!

[theancientsam]

It's very good. Thank you for putting in this effort, having this resource really is an integral part of

event grinding. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by theancientsam

[Heather Prime]

ty  ty,  i found boombanger, 3 scared bows, and 1 fire rod,  good job.   we plan halloween event on oct 19 or 25, 

[IronSheik]

Thank you all for the feedback so far. 

 

Just to give you guys an idea of how this works:

 

• The system uses mostly free resources (with the exception of Excel, since I pay for an Office subscription license for other purposes). These are the tools I'm currently comfortable with using. Maybe one day if I learn to program using Python, I can put together a better system.
• Google Forms is used with pre-populated lists which guides the user to select the correct information with no typos, etc. The only field that is open for any text today is the Forum Name
• Once submitted, it sends the data to a google spreadsheet, which publishes the info publicly for retrieval
• Using Power Query in Excel, the data is retrieved manipulated into a separate table (2022 IMPORT tab)
• From there, the 2022 Drop Table tab pulls the information from 2022 Import, and manipulates the information into the lists that you see (Drop Table, Drops Per ID Chart, # of reports, Leaderboards, etc.
• When I make forum posts, I take screenshots of each table and paste it as an image. I also take a text copy of the list and post it in the first post for ease of access (for those who struggle to see the Excel Online spreadsheet)

 

Things I wish the current system would handle better:

• I would rather use Microsoft Forms, since it would integrate much more seamlessly with Excel, but that requires a more expensive subscription. Current subscription only allows for downloadable excel files
• One thing I dislike about Google Forms is when you create branch in the form, it creates a new page you have to click next to get to. Microsoft Forms updates the page on the spot as you pick the right branches and would be much more seamless, however see above for why I can't use Microsoft Forms
• The system today doesn't have a way to inform the user if a report has already been made, or checks if the report is accurate. The duplicate report appears in a different colour, but this is still handled manually where I have to go in and remove the duplicate report
• Conflicting reports also work the same way. I see them conflicting and I have to verify/remove the incorrect one.

 

@Lobotomy you make great points. To address them:

 

• This definitely frees up my time and removes a huge amount of manual labour to transpose the information from the forum into the spreadsheet. The information is designed to make it as easy, error-free and seamless as possible. I've had a few people using them during their runs and found it was much easier to use the form rather than typing things in manually
• The Excel sheet pulls the data online in 1 minute intervals, which is why it refreshes so fast. Yes it is fantastic that people can see the results right away
• I wish there was a way to allow users to do a mass input of discoveries, but at this time, the tools are limited to what you see
• The order of monsters is just like what @Smoochum said. It is sorted by area first (e.g. Forest, Caves, Mines, Ruins), then alphabetical within those areas.
• Access to the information is always available no matter what. Anyone can go into the Excel and do data exports and run their own numbers, copy/paste things, etc.

 

Ultimately, I think that the drop chart reporting should be a built-in function on the website itself rather than some 3rd party tools. It already gets a ton of engagement, so why not make it into something official and something people can contribute to? Some benefits I see would be:

• A new, unique table per event/year would open up, can shows previous year's drops for reference.
• A reward/trusted submitter system if accurate reports are made
• Score based on rarity of item (example: Zelda Magazine report would be worth 1 point, Master Sword would be worth 5 points, non-event drops from rarer mobs/drop rates worth more points, etc.)
• An easy to input form, which allows for 1 or bulk submissions. and outputs to a table that looks similar to a drop chart
• A native chart that updates with live data, showing similar stats that the Excel form does, not requiring signing into a separate system to see

This is the true way of doing it, and me only being a mere member with limited ability, this is what I came up with...showing the potential of what could be. This is something the community loves engaging in, so the developers should capitalize on it. Hopefully @Larva, @Soly and the like catch wind of this.

 

Hopefully this clarifies things. @JupiterDeMars also messaged me in private to bring up some concerns, which I am truly grateful for.

 

The only way things get better is with unfiltered, candid feedback, so please keep them coming!

[Lobotomy]

Oh, ok. It's because I didn't take into account the area ordering that I was so confused lol, mb. I then modify my point to - a purely alphabetical ordering would be smoother, IMO-

[IronSheik]

17 minutes ago, Lobotomy said:

Oh, ok. It's because I didn't take into account the area ordering that I was so confused lol, mb. I then modify my point to - a purely alphabetical ordering would be smoother, IMO-

 

I think this is the correct way forward too. I'll make that adjustment in the next iteration.

[Lordwin]

The use of google forms makes things really easy, overall this system of reporting event items is nice. Although, I wish there is a way to know if a certain weapon/item was already reported, instead of scrolling through the excel to find if that weapon/item was already reported. idk, if that feature already exists, but yeah thats my experience using this system, scrolling through the excel first to check and see if the item was already reported before actually reporting the item in google forms. 

[theancientsam]

i wish there was a forums post we could just haphazardly go to and be like hey on blue i found a sacred bow and someone else comes back and uploads the info properly. (i understand why it makes more sense for me to do it myself.) i probably discovered 1/6th of the early blue drops but i didnt report any of them because the one extra step of openeing the excell sheet i couldnt be bothered. but i would go on shouts and tell people in game, they would add it for me. i wish it was more like that. 

[IronSheik]

If you really want idealism and thinking out of the box, there should be a database log generated each time of what dropped where from what monster. Now this wouldn't apply to every item since it would be ridiculous, but it would be filtered so if something particular does drop for someone that falls within the criteria and one picks it up, it should log the Guild #, item, time of pick up, etc...

 

This should then auto-generate a list of drops. The list would essentially build itself, and since Guild #'s are pretty much tied to forum members, you'd know who got what.

[ink]

9 hours ago, IronSheik said:

If you really want idealism and thinking out of the box, there should be a database log generated each time of what dropped where from what monster. Now this wouldn't apply to every item since it would be ridiculous, but it would be filtered so if something particular does drop for someone that falls within the criteria and one picks it up, it should log the Guild #, item, time of pick up, etc...

 

This should then auto-generate a list of drops. The list would essentially build itself, and since Guild #'s are pretty much tied to forum members, you'd know who got what.

These had all ready been done years before and would have been easier to log those into a event drop style chart like we have for normal rare's chart https://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/droptable/drop-tables/ . What this has achieved by not knowing if certain rares have been moved from previous times , Is added another time sink to a game that has all ready a massive time sinks example mag feeding .

This for me just killed off a week of farming a decent hit weapon from events.