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mudkipzjm

Ultima Server Is Declining

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1 hour ago, R-78 said:

I just requested Larva to make it usable by Forces (so back to All classes).

As for the range nerf, here is a picture of the thing

3qCfmQH.png

Is it that big of a nerf? Worth quiting the server? I don't think so, but you tell me...

Peace & love everyone please...

Worth quitting the server for? Actually yes when the staff have that kind of mentality about these things.
How is the fact it reaches the Flowers in Tower a good reason to nerf the range on Serene Swan? 

"Oh god a gun that's effective for other classes in Tower, lets nerf it."

That is very bad reasoning, and definitely an understandable reason for people to quit the server, and probably is the reason this server's population has been declining as Mudkips has already mentioned. 

I on the other hand will not be quitting for such things, because I haven't reached my goal of gearing out all my 23 characters.

However, I must admit that this Serene Swan situation is complete nonsense, and I am not thrilled about it. 
Folks should have left it alone, and done something about L&K38 Combat like Larva said he was gonna do.

Anybody who is alright with the nerf to Serene Swan is nuts.
Way to do it after everybody maxed theirs. Should have done it much much sooner. It's far too late for that $#"#"%. Good job.

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Posted (edited)

The SS debacle is just the latest in a line of neglangces and terrible decision making. It's the straw that is breaking the camel's back for many. To make this to be only about the SS nerf is being dishonest to the discussion going on here.

Edited by NamelessFool

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Posted (edited)

Honestly, it sounds like there is a communication problem between the GM and the Staff that needs some fixing.

As for the removal of rifle range. As much as I hate to admit it, it makes sense for a 12 shot weapon. The real backlash is the sense of loss aversion players have right now like with Overwatch and every time Blizzard nerfs Mercy.

Still, Ult Tower is inordinately geared towards the Fo/Ranger playstyle and there needs to be something that makes Hunters more viable. This isn't a criticism of the Server, it's a problem the fundamental design flaw in the game itself.

Edited by RedDingo
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The nerf, now that apparently the Force restriction is gone, sounds less bad now. It's less of a broken item now but still quite useful. That being said,  I'm still annoyed this was done after it was said that it wouldn't be getting nerfed, and having spent a fair amount of DTs and PDs on it myself I feel even more annoyed.

Also I'd appreciate it if this topic would not be derailed into drama since I'm hoping this will spark a change and I don't think that'd happen if we just spend half the time bickering with each other.

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Posted (edited)

Ok I have to put my 2 cents in here to try to get this back on track. I've not played much on this server and I am not very well known but I do know that when I first started we had reliable GM's and events and even mini events between main events to keep everyone's interest. But since I've been back I've noticed that HH is always random parts of the day and night. The event's are always not ran on time and there is a lack of communication between everyone. 

What we need is set times for HH especially for the people that live in different time zones. We need mini events while there is no main event happening. We need new blood to help round everything out. No offense @R-78 @serverus @Protoss You are doing a great job when you can but I think we need more firm times for things. A set schedule for events and if it's delayed because of new weapons let the server know. I think most of us would be very understanding of it. And those who aren't can just be unsatisfied. 

Sorry if I have offended anyone by posting this but this is just my view point. When I joined I would always see @Cyane or @Fyrewolf5 in the lobby or playing the game and I just don't see that anymore. Maybe a quick game here and there but nothing like it used to be. 

 

Edited by Faelynn
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Posted (edited)

I 100% just reread the entire thread on SS vs Ultima. No where did Larva entertain the idea of unlocking L&K38. He simply agreed to nerf ideas for SS. There is no quote on that topic in regards to that matter. Honestly provide the quote or drop the topic. From what I can see, multiple GMs and Developers have told you it won't happen on this server. Unless Larva caves on this one as well, it isn't happening.

12 minutes ago, NamelessFool said:

The SS debacle is just the latest in a line of neglangces and terrible decision making. It's the straw that is breaking the camel's back for many. To make this to be only about the SS nerf is being dishonest to the discussion going on here.

This is fair. I could not recall other ones off the top of my head in regards to nerfed custom items, nor can I at this moment. I do agree though this isn't the first time however for something like this.

Edited by Scott18
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18 minutes ago, RedDingo said:

The real backlash is the sense of loss aversion players have right now like with Overwatch and every time Blizzard nerfs Mercy.

YOU LEAVE MY WAIFU OUT OF THIS :onion-head28:

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10 minutes ago, Scott18 said:

I 100% just reread the entire thread on SS vs Ultima. No where did Larva entertain the idea of unlocking L&K38. He simply agreed to nerf ideas for SS. There is no quote on that topic in regards to that matter. Honestly provide the quote or drop the topic. From what I can see, multiple GMs and Developers have told you it won't happen on this server. Unless Larva caves on this one as well, it isn't happening.

This is fair. I could not recall other ones off the top of my head in regards to nerfed custom items, nor can I at this moment. I do agree though this isn't the first time however for something like this.

Water Gun was nerfed(rightfully so, made several other items worthless), 100 Souls used to be 1600 atp instead of 1100.

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imho part of the decline is people on forums

i mean when people get in trouble for doing things that other people do that dont get any more than a verbal hey knock that off and the only difrence is the people that get away with it say sorry for doing it even though they repeatedly do it and show no signs of changing but its not really my place to say who should get off with a slap on the wrist or jail time

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I had no idea about any of these nerfs, but to be fair. I am rarely ever on anymore. So I missed the arguments for the nerfs and why they were nerfed.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Scott18 said:

1. The refusal to make certain changes based on the lack of source code. Honestly, while I understand the legality behind it, there are servers who have acquired it through other means and make otherwise impossible changes to level designs, weapon skins, create entirely new weapons. The selling points of some of these servers is that they will go out of their way to do the very things that the staff of this server outright refuse to do and silence people on it. If SEGA  honestly cared what happened, then all of these servers would not exist without paying SEGA some sort of royalties. Clearly they let this game die in their eyes with the Dreamcast and they ignore the clear abuse of the copyright for this game. 

I'd love to know who got the source code and how, I want a copy.  That being said, as with everything in life, some people are capable of things that others aren't.  When we say we can't do something because we don't have the source code, that doesn't mean no one else is able to, just that we cannot.  If you can produce said source code that others have supposedly gotten, please do. 

 

EDIT:

This came off a little more defensive than I intended.  However you are kind of insulting the devs by telling them they should be better at their (volunteer) job.  Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

Edited by Lemon

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There's one simple step that can be taken to make this server better. Take a step back and realize you're on a server dedicated to a nearly nineteen year old game that only attracts an incredibly tiny amount of people. This is a small community. I like small communities; people know each other well enough before long that you've got connections, easily recognized names and faces, support and comradery that can ascend further into real life friendships, all the stuff you don't find as easily in much larger places. All due to a very old piece of work, a game old enough to be considered an adult, that has basically fallen off the grid for what its original creators put their foot down on.

This is the online version of a social club that gathers multiple times a week for board games, card games, movies, grill-outs, whatever club your happy and socially healthy elder relative may have talked about in the past. The only difference is it revolves around a game where teamwork is not only encouraged but expected, where time spent needs to feel rewarding, and challenges need to remain.

It's safe to say, a lot of people here understand these three needs. After all, we've had no less than four topics about people trying to offer their two cents on the balance of one new item because the majority of them care about class balance, an item's worth, and the loss each other suffers when a change to an item wastes time and money spent on said item.

Larva, I still don't envy your position because the head of a staff has to deal with the most crap and do the most thankless work. But how you treat the above facts is, as Mud summarized, hurtful to the community.

The community cares. You make it a point to not include them.
You offer no transparency about discussions. Then your exact opinion on the result happens. Not only that, but down to the letter.
After promising a discussion, you mention your staff was involved in a discussion, but later make the changes on your own whim and cause one to play catch-up in figuring out what you changed.
During the conversations about the item, you lose your cool and shitpost, proceed to mock others, and rebuke more "shitpost" from someone calling out your offense.

I quote one Julius Campbell to Gary Bertier: "Attitude reflects leadership, captain."

We have an entire topic devoted to improving the server, but for the sake of really removing one of the big problems the server has to keep players around, my two cents? Events. They're wonderful because people come around... for a week or two. Then people get the one thing they want once it's found out, and they're gone for a while. Then another event, everyone's back for their item upgrade, buy the base, new item... and gone. There is no reason whatsoever every single item can not exist as a static drop year round.
We have a 1/10000 chance sword for a single ID against a creature difficult to kill en masse. Is a 1/10000 chance for a PGF from Falz for one uncommon ID year round so detrimental to server stability? 1/15000 chance for C/battle from Epsilon for one ID? Serene Swan is now basically an in-between of mid and high grade pistol, it can probably keep the 1/1500 drop rate from Sorcerers for one ID (still making it harder than Spread Needle and Panzer Faust combined, upgraded to superior items anyway).

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2 hours ago, R-78 said:

I just requested Larva to make it usable by Forces (so back to All classes).

As for the range nerf, here is a picture of the thing

3qCfmQH.png

Is it that big of a nerf? Worth quiting the server? I don't think so, but you tell me...

Peace & love everyone please...

The nerf does suck, but it isn't the main issue. It is how this all unfolded. I don't think most people (myself included) would have bothered farming this gun had we known from the beginning that it would not have rifle range. I would have spent all of those HHs running weather effects or RocT farming Centurion/Battle instead of running MotV for SS. So now, instead of having 100+ dts worth of Serene Swans (Yes, I have 10 or 11 of these things in my bank) I have a bunch of undesirable paper weights worth a couple of pds. You guys have a golden opportunity to make this right. Its as simple as compensating people with a fair trade-in for other Summer event items or a fair amount of DTs. I just lost over 100 DTs worth of item value because of this whole thing, of course I'm a little bit upset about it. 

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2 hours ago, Scott18 said:

1. The refusal to make certain changes based on the lack of source code. Honestly, while I understand the legality behind it, there are servers who have acquired it through other means and make otherwise impossible changes to level designs, weapon skins, create entirely new weapons. The selling points of some of these servers is that they will go out of their way to do the very things that the staff of this server outright refuse to do and silence people on it. If SEGA  honestly cared what happened, then all of these servers would not exist without paying SEGA some sort of royalties. Clearly they let this game die in their eyes with the Dreamcast and they ignore the clear abuse of the copyright for this game. 

 

1 hour ago, Lemon said:

I'd love to know who got the source code and how, I want a copy.  That being said, as with everything in life, some people are capable of things that others aren't.  When we say we can't do something because we don't have the source code, that doesn't mean no one else is able to, just that we cannot.  If you can produce said source code that others have supposedly gotten, please do. 

 

EDIT:

This came off a little more defensive than I intended.  However you are kind of insulting the devs by telling them they should be better at their (volunteer) job.  Sometimes it's just not worth the effort.

So do I.
Having the source code of the client would be a very big thing and as far as I know nobody has it.

When I say something cannot be done, it doesn't mean that it actually can't be done at all, just that the effort it requires is too big.
But for our purposes, can't be done...

There are other people more talented than me and with more available time but I don't think there is any new level design or entirely new weapons, we do have new weapon skins tho (thanks to the community, ofc)

(2 cents from my dev POV)

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Ok after reading all posts in this topic including @Kikori  one. Who only points out how a awful person I am...  Anyway

First thing first, if someone thinks that I don't love this server, that i don't care about it or ultima community that's just wrong. I cant even count how many problems i have had with wife for the server LOL.... So.. Having a different opinion, different view of the road does not mean i don't care about the server. Yes I'm not as active as I wish, but i do have a family here at home that takes must of my time. I'm not planing on having everyone happy not because i don't want to, but because is not possible, again different ideas and different point of views.

Now let me tell you something for example @mudkipzjm your posts must of the times are super toxic, always pointing to someone, talking trash about the server or me or the donations etc. Dude you should analyze that, you play here, you have friends here and still you trash talk a lot about the place you belong to.

We want a better community ? we want a better server? well lets start with our persona first.  Not everything it's my fault. I been here for almost 11 years, i have seen different eras of the servers, the drama has always been around I can remember other times with drama about this and that. But right now i can tell the drama is not the problem, it goes beyond drama when users just find a excuse to start trolling,  trashing and converting at any chance the topic in to something toxic.

Help me to help you.

About the SS here is a screenshot were i stated that the weapon will be changed if it needed to change. After that the topic of SS vs Came up and we start to discus stats and changes for the weapon,  I assume that was self stated that the weapon will receive some changes.

image.png

 

And now once again I cant please everyone (because my ideas counts too not only yours guys) that being said, I will open a poll where i will post options for final changes.

vote in there and that will be the last change to the weapon. 

 

6 hours ago, R-78 said:

I just requested Larva to make it usable by Forces (so back to All classes).

As for the range nerf, here is a picture of the thing

3qCfmQH.png

Is it that big of a nerf? Worth quiting the server? I don't think so, but you tell me...

Peace & love everyone please...

She Requested, we still in to this.

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