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50 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the multi-targeting feature for Arrest Faust & Frozen Faust?

  2. 2. Are you willing to see Ultima's Bringer with a percing Demons feature?



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First of all I’d like to state that I’m very grateful for the work from the volunteers team of Ultima put into PSOBB on their free time so let’s keep those words in mind while we share messages and opinions together.

I don’t usually create discussion topics, however I’m concerned by the new ranged weapons implemented for hunters in the 10th Anniversary Event, they have a lot of potential but feel restrained in a frustrating way. That's why I'll review the transformations of Panzer Faust; Arrest Faust & Frozen Faust obtainable with Arrest Booster & Frozen Booster respectively.

Let’s start with the droprates available for the combiner required to make Arrest Faust :

Olga Flow ⏤ Arrest Booster 1/256
Kondrieu ⏤ Arrest Booster 1/292 (same droprate as SonicTeam Armor)

Since it’s a rare new item droping from final bosses we can agree that is coherent to except originals or impactful features from it with such a difficult droprate. While I'm writing this message the current state of AF (Arrest Faust) is:

Arrest Faust

210 ATP
60 ATA
100 ATP required
Special: Arrest
Animation: Shot
No grind
Auto-Aim
Single-target
HUmar, HUnewearl, HUcast, HUcaseal & RAnger

Now, this is how AF is doing compared to the other Ultima’s exclusive guns and vanilla ones;

- Morolian Blaster is more powerful, faster and with longer range:
280 ATP
60 ATA
Special: Arrest
Animation: Handgun
Single-target
HUmar, HUnewearl, HUcast, HUcaseal

- Holy Ray is more powerful, more accurate, faster, with longer range and available all year round at 2⁄73 on Sil Dragon:
290 ATP
70 ATA
Special: Arrest
Animation: Rifle
Single-target
HUmar, HUnewearl

- Arrest Raygun 50 hit is more accurate, faster and available all year round in Restless Lion:
150 ATP
85 ATA
Special: Arrest
Animation: Handgun
Single-target
HUmar, HUnewearl, HUcast, HUcaseal

I’m mostly talking about AF as it’s the one i tried, but FF (Frozen Faust) suffers the same problem, anyone would pick a Blizzard Raygun 50 hit or Water Gun (+ special) for the rifle range. I’m probably missing more exemples but those shows already how much affordables alternatives are available that outclasses AF & FF in multiple aspects, even off-event.

The auto-aim feature from Panzer Faust is there which feels nice but does it justify the hunt? With those kinds of droprates you could get a SonicTeam Armor instead, just think about it… Currently new fausts are missing a speciality or perks that really differentiates them from other single-target guns.

So let's clarify the purpose of those hunter's fausts at the beginning with concepts from the creator himself in the Unreleased Weapons section ⎋ (you can also read the original concept of Ultima's Bringer):

Quote

Arrest Faust - Iron Faust in yellow and usable by hunters - Meant to be like arrest needle for hunters. Cancelled because we couldn't seem to make it hit multiple targets.
Frozen Faust - Iron Faust in red and usable by hunters - Meant to be like a less effective frozen shooter for hunters. Cancelled because we couldn't seem to make it hit multiple targets.

- kajex, 2015

"Arrest Needle & Frozen Shooter for hunters with multiple targets."
Iron Faust is one of the most iconic weapon of PSO then seeing a brand new version handled by a hunter is truly mesmerizing. So while keeping it balanced in ATP & ATA to respect the other classes, the crowd control stay the main point of satisfaction.

So back to 2018 with the two weapons finally out, does it mean that the single-hit target aspect is still a technical restriction or perhaps is it a choice? And above all, can we except an update in the future by knowing that someone is working on the multi-targeting addition?

In a second note : the way donation tickets (real money) are managed is none of my business as long as the server stays alive, maybe investing in some programming/coding services could be beneficial for our beloved PSOBB. Even a public call to the community could potentially bring more talented people to work with the team.
@Larva can you share your thoughts with us?

Since the 10th Anniversary Event is still active some positive feedbacks from the people working on those weapons would be greatly appreciated and could motivate more player to hunt the new boosters.

I hope this topic enlightened some questionables points to the one who were wondering what those weapons were made of to judge if they wanna put some time in grinding Respective Tomorrow before the Christmas Event or not.

Meanwhile don't forget to complete the poll to show us your opinion, thank you!
Note: Ultima's Bringer and his piercing feature from the original concept is also included in the poll.

Cheers!

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Unpopular opinion: I don't think the new Fausts should be multi-target and also usable on Hunter, just sounds way too broken. Ultima Bringers should be able to pierce though, was hoping it'd be an upgrade since I've got an 80 hit regular bringers lol.

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Well the original idea of this Faust were from@Kajex . And yes the it was intended to make them multi target, but unfortunately the game client didn't like this and it didn't work. So we toast away the idea of this items.

So now after 3 years of the original idea. I decided to give it another shot, and yet the multi target it's still not working, but I feel the weapons even with out the multi target are good enough. I know many users would prefer the multi target but unfortunately it's just not possible to have at the moment for technical reasons.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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So my opinion on this is that the design it's not good enough not even interesting. The items don't have to be broken or too strong to be worthy. They need to add something to your playstyle, like bomb-chu (this was a really cool and interesting design and add something to the playstyle and not broken at all).

About the new panzers It could be an option for people that have low/mid tier gear, but as stated before, they aren't interesting enough and the rates don't reflect the usefullness of the item. I mean, if i was starting playing now and needed gear i wouldn't even think about investing time and effort to get any of those items, because they are really hard to get and i could simply replace them with whole year obtainable items and way cheaper in time and money (1/200 ish in a final boss, its damn difficult).

Another thing that you must note, is that panzer faust drops with low stats. I think that it's programmed to be like that. This means that your arrest/frozen faust will be expensive for you, when you have better options that lipelis stated well and way cheaper.

I don't agree with them being multi-target, that would be a bit broken and i don't like broken weapons. I think the problem is more with the concept/design and their droprates. They should be moved to another Mob other than a final boss, with a better rate (like lindcray for example. And lindcray is a god tier weapon and has a fair rate, fair stats when dropping, etc).

About Ultima Bringer, i don't know what to say. The concept, the usefullness and the rate are in the same line as the previous ones. Bringer's rifle its a way better option in terms of raw power and price and also obtainable during the whole year and easier. You don't miss that megid boost, because it's not exclusive at all, since some other weapons have this. Also, bringer's rifle it's usable in more classes.

I really don't have opinion on making the demons pierce, but i think it could work and not be broken.

In my opinion, the weapons should stay as they are, but where they drop and the rate at which they drop, should be changed in the future events.

EDIT: Also forgot to add: You could simply use a boomerang or a s-rank arrest j-cutter with 0 hit SNS glitching, and having way better results than using a Arrest Faust (not to talk that you probably have to add hit on it). The same thing can be done with a blizzard s-rank j-cutter instead of a Frozen Faust.

Edited by jezbuz
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I don't think a single target arrest gun, which is slower and weaker than others that are much easier to find, is worth the same hunting effort of a PGF (same boss and drop rate). If Fausts were multi target (being broken like the others said), it would at least explain the crazy drop rates for Arrest Booster.

Unless you make Frozen Faust multi-target monsters or have at least the same special activation of a Frozen Shooter, then it is also useless with its current design. RA already have Frozen Shooter/Snow Queen/Rage de Glacier/Banana Cannon, HU/FO can use Barta, casts can use Ice Traps, etc. The drop rate is fine considering it is a poor weapon.

Now this is curious, how was Banana Cannon possible, and Frozen/Arrest Fausts original concepts wasn't? If you make a weapon that looks like a Faust model, but using the Cannon Rouge behaviour, it would work right? (of course you would have to nerf ATP/ATA)

If those weapons are not going to bring innovation or maybe improvements to the gameplay, then I believe it was a mistake releasing them.

Edited by Noob Saibot
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I would just like to say that I appreciate that we can all come together as a community and have a comprehensive discussion about a certain topic while being respectful and it's one of the reasons I love this community so much (even if we all don't always agree on everything). I'm very happy to be a part of it and I thank everyone for their thoughts comments and ideas about this topic. 

 

PS: I think the idea of a piercing Bringer's Rifle is very exciting /edit

Edited by Dutch Ride
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2 hours ago, Dutch Ride said:

while being respectful

keep it respectable

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With the rate being absurd, it should be a weapon of high calibur to make it worthwhile. However, I do not think everyone will like the outcome of what happens with such polarizing opinions on making multi-target arrest/frozen faust. That being said, the new items should not be removed because for the people who have spent their time hunting them despite the rate and usefulness, it would be unfair.  Either changing the rate/mob of the drop or adjusting the special/stats/class requirements would satisfy the majority. Also if you voted no to either of the poles- your mom's a ho.

Edited by Solaris
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8 minutes ago, Solaris said:

With the rate being absurd, it should be a weapon of high calibur to make it worthwhile. However, I do not think everyone will like the outcome of what happens with such polarizing opinions on making multi-target arrest/frozen faust. That being said, the new items should not be removed because for the people who have spent their time hunting them despite the rate and usefulness, it would be unfair.  Either changing the rate/mob of the drop or adjusting the special/stats/class requirements would satisfy the majority. Also if you voted no to either of the poles- your mom's a ho.

Well to be honest no one forced anyone to hunt them. They did it out of their own will. Even I hunted some expecting nothing. Just for the hell of having them to collect. Not all weapons with high drop rate are supposed to be useful. You can look at ID cards as a prime example. People still hunt them for fun. I know y’all are disappointed, but hey the 10 year blades are OP as hell and extremely easy to hunt SOU and PBC are dirt cheap at 10dts. I say let’s just be happy with what we got. We are after all celebrating 10 years of this server. 

Happy 10 years Ultima.

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5 minutes ago, Starlord said:

Well to be honest no one forced anyone to hunt them. They did it out of their own will. Even I hunted some expecting nothing. Just for the hell of having them to collect. Not all weapons with high drop rate are supposed to be useful. You can look at ID cards as a prime example. People still hunt them for fun. I know y’all are disappointed, but hey the 10 year blades are OP as hell and extremely easy to hunt SOU and PBC are dirt cheap at 10dts. I say let’s just be happy with what we got. We are after all celebrating 10 years of this server. 

Happy 10 years Ultima.

Perhaps I may have worded things too vague- this is an EVENT drop- which means they are available to hunt only for a limited time- ID cards are available all year-round. That is why I feel it's usefulness should equate the drop rate.

Edited by Solaris
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In my opinion those weapons are okay ish , but it's true that none of them truely feel special , yes none of us got forced to grind them , but does that really matter ? , i think that a weapon with such low droprates and event only should not necessarely be superior to others but it should at least feel special and rewarding to own them Im all in for the multi targetting feature , even tho Larva said it doesn't work/isn't possible , there are many proofs [SOMEWHERE] *coughs* that it is indeed possible and is absolutely not a game limitation .

 

Everyone here has an opinion on those weapons which is great  , but some of them lack a neutral point of view , i do not own those weapons , but unique weapons SHOULD feel atractive to people that  doesn't have it , and should feel special for people that have it , that's the point of events in many games , getting something unique that obtainable only in a specific timeline , im saying it again , they don't have to be stronger , they have to feel special and unique.

Edited by Liarus
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Not directed specifically at Liarus, but can we stop beating around the bush.  Destiny was able to implement these items.  Ultima was not.  Now if one of you want to go and convince Destiny's devs to tell us how they did it, we might do it too.  The argument that they did it so we should be able to do it is not a solid one.  Just because Usain Bolt can run 100 meters in sub 10 seconds doesn't mean everyone can. So can we stop using it? It's just rude.

Edited by Lemon
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*INFO*

Frozen Faust

210 ATP
80 ATA
100 ATP required
Special: Blizzard
Animation: Shot
No grind
Auto-Aim
Single-target
HUmar, HUnewearl, HUcast, HUcaseal & RAnger
Merikle ⏤ Frozen Booster 1/512

The based ATA got +20 ATA than Arrest Faust.

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On 12/14/2018 at 11:10 AM, Lemon said:

Not directed specifically at Liarus, but can we stop beating around the bush.  Destiny was able to implement these items.  Ultima was not.  Now if one of you want to go and convince Destiny's devs to tell us how they did it, we might do it too.  The argument that they did it so we should be able to do it is not a solid one.  Just because Usain Bolt can run 100 meters in sub 10 seconds doesn't mean everyone can. So can we stop using it? It's just rude.

It's only fair they do, since they stole several weapons from us. (UR, Glide v00, Asteron Striker, PR, the list goes on.)

:cr-dunno:

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