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Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)


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3 hours ago, Soly said:

Alright... there will be a first adjustment soon and also add the current drop style to the room information in the lobby counter and to the command /roominfo.
Expect it in the next few days.

Will you be updating the main post (first post) with updated values when this happens? jw

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Probably, but we might let it run without publishing them for a bit to see how it goes.
The values will never go lower than what they are now, that's for sure.

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8 hours ago, Midori said:

The reason I solo is because I want items. No need to overthink it. Currently the game forces me to choose between items or multiplayer. If things improve and I can have both at the same time, then I will be happier. If you think I'm crazy for caring about items in a game that's all about items, knock yourself out.

mmm well im old here and i met alot of weird people around here but youre the only multiclienting whore SoloingSemiGod that il ever meet  and wasnt a pleasure. and il meet alot of people that solo over multiplayer but at the end they played with evryone and ended doesnt caring about items i dont think the game forces you to became that way, when i started all of my team we went hunting for our gears as a team and i know that changed but well, why to play a multiplayer game if you gona SoloMulticlienting ProSemiGod mode on o.O.....thats...ok i think. about the Knocking Ourselves Out  i think that got the same way for.........meh  nothing its just an opinion haha (note that its an opinion im not insulting anyone o trying too(maybe ) xd)

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Quote

 

Obviously the chance won't be the same, but as an average, it is.

You said it yourself : "at least", that means that you can actually get more than 1 as well so at the end if you repeat the same experience a lot of times, it will be approximatively the same.
 

With the 50% 33% and 25% rates, it looks more like the original dropstyle added to a random distribution of the loots : at the end all the room drops will be almost the same in average, and this can be annoying when someone doesn't need something someone else wants : if a trifluid drops for example, the cast won't bother picking it while a FO may need it. That's why I agree the room overall DAR should at least slightly increase with the number of players to make it worthful.

 

 

 

Idk how to quote manually and i can't make the quote button work for some reason.
But r-78, with that post i was trying to say that the way you and most people thinks it works is incorrect.
With those chances the average won't be the same.
You will get around 0,68x of the items, and the more attempts you do, the more the number of drops will go close to 0,68x of the items you get playing alone, and this is counting 4 players in the room, and counting already the fact you can get 2,3 or 4 drops at the same time.
To make an example, suppose you are playing with 3 people, and suppose they will give you every single item they drop. With these conditions you will get around 3/4 (0,68x) of the items you would get playing alone. And the more you will play, the more the numbers get close to this.
After this you can understand how playing alone in a party of 4 people will give you basically nothing.
Also for what Velociti said in his post, what will happen is that real chance to drop an item soon( with soon i mean in a reasonable time, it can be 1 month or more)  will be way way lower than it normally is , and since in the reality it isn't possible to have an infinite number of attempts, basically the items that people will effectively get will probably be not ever worth to consider .
Now idk what would be a decent dar, probably the dar i calculated is still too high, but having a dar that is too high will only get the mode not worth it, even considering that someone could ninja your drop consecutive times, I think this will need a lot of testing.
To make a sum of what i said,   50% 33% and 25% rates would make the game not worth to play in a disastrous way if you are hunting items.

Edited by BK-201
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c4jt321.png

^this thread right now

Anyways, I said it in an earlier post but it got deleted. The current system actually discourages people from using it more that actually using it. Why have 4 times the rate for an item than usual? I'd rather hunt by myself than have to do 4 times the runs with other people just to get my drop. Honestly, it wasn't done right in my opinion, and it I honestly don't see it being used much until there are much better dar reductions from people joining. On a different server(don't want to list it so I don't get my post deleted/edited) the dar for 4 people using the pso2 drops is ~50%, which on ultima, that's the reduction for 2 people. I know the reductions aren't final, but they DEFINITELY need an adjusting for this new system to be of any use. (Yes, I am aware most of this has probably been said many times before, but tl:dr, and well, I wanted to get my opinion in on it.)

Edited by mudkipzjm
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I'll adjust the rates after the server restart.
Also it should solve the bug related to items obtained in Individual Drops not being seen by other players if dropped after being picked up.

Oh, also the drop style will appear with the command "/roominfo" and when you are browsing parties at the lobby counter, you will see the dropstyle in the page with the time.

Edited by Soly
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Well since most people in this topic are fighting over opinions I'll just leave this here.

6i7hFoX.png

 

The 3 methods can be done in roughly the same time frame for most hunts. Obviously everyone soloing brings much more items to the server than a group of people hunting together (with whatever system). I don't see why the DAR rates for multiplayer shouldn't be increased. 

Edited by magictrick
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6 minutes ago, magictrick said:

Obviously everyone soloing brings much more items to the server than a group of people hunting together (with whatever system).

This is assuming everyone has the gear to solo. This is leaving out the fact you can't exactly farm as quickly with 4 people doing their own thing. Roct is probably the most efficient way to c/battle hunt now that LHB isn't a thing for the time being. I don't think you'll have people that can solo roct, at least in an amount of time that'd be efficient. Weather Effects is the easiest thing to solo that has epsilons in it, and depending on the person, can take 10-20 minutes, and that is just for two epsis, assuming you reset after the second room in tower.

Edited by mudkipzjm
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11 minutes ago, mudkipzjm said:

This is assuming everyone has the gear to solo. This is leaving out the fact you can't exactly farm as quickly with 4 people doing their own thing. Roct is probably the most efficient way to c/battle hunt now that LHB isn't a thing for the time being. I don't think you'll have people that can solo roct, at least in an amount of time that'd be efficient. Weather Effects is the easiest thing to solo that has epsilons in it, and depending on the person, can take 10-20 minutes, and that is just for two epsis, assuming you reset after the second room in tower.

That's why I said most hunts. RT, TTF and pod can all be solo'd. The point is, people with gear CAN solo hunts and will continue to do so because it's much more eficient. 

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2 hours ago, magictrick said:

Well since most people in this topic are fighting over opinions I'll just leave this here.

6i7hFoX.png

 

The 3 methods can be done in roughly the same time frame for most hunts. Obviously everyone soloing brings much more items to the server than a group of people hunting together (with whatever system). I don't see why the DAR rates for multiplayer shouldn't be increased. 

This photo is very simplistic, i really don't llike it.
You are supposing the dar for the item dropped is 1 and increasing the number of rolls.
Even like this with 25% you would have (0,0,0,0) for the most and sometimes a (0 0 0 1) if you count that monsters actually have an initial dar.
 

Edited by BK-201
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1 hour ago, BK-201 said:

This photo is very simplistic, i really don't llike it.
You are supposing the dar for the item dropped is 1 and increasing the number of rolls.
Even like this with 25% you would have (0,0,0,0) for the most and sometimes a (0 0 0 1) if you count that monsters actually have an initial dar.
 

It's supposed to be simplistic. The image portraits the ideal case scenario for all 3 methods in which they all have the same chances and the same probability. The point of the picture is that when the odds are the same, it's much more efficient to split a group up and hunt things in seperate rooms.

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Oh ok, i get it now. I thought you were saying more than you actually are. 
But yeah, what you said it's totally true if we speak in pure terms of efficiency, however 2p hunt can be better than single in a few cases.
But not everyone likes to play alone all the time. And it depends by your gear, and the mission you are going to farm.  
The thing i wanted to underline is that if Dar is too low, it is never worth to use individual drops.
In pso i have always hated shared drops, that's why i would really like individual drops to be worth it.

Edited by BK-201
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7 minutes ago, BK-201 said:

Oh ok, i get it now. I thought you were saying more than you actually are. 
But yeah, what you said it's totally true if we speak in pure terms of efficiency, however 2p hunt can be better than single in a few cases.
But not everyone likes to play alone all the time. And it depends by your gear, and the mission you are going to farm.  
The thing i wanted to underline is that if Dar is too low, it is never worth to use individual drops.
In pso i have always hated shared drops, that's why i would really like individual drops to be worth it.

I personally feel it's disgusting to split up with your friends and solo everything. But the truth is that it's the best (only?) way to get endgame items. Everyone here knows so and everyone does so. Just look at the room list during hh and you'll see 90% locked rooms with 1/4 players. I don't like it, but it's the way it is. Problem is I feel new players have a hard time getting help this way and quit Ultima...

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The picture is also too simplistic for another reason. It's doing a comparison assuming the only possible benefit to play multiplayer is more items. Very rarely is this the case in rpgs, they almost never reach a 'multiplayer is 4x faster/more efficient' standard. Multiplayer in games is not designed specifically around higher efficiency and speeds. A D&D group does not split up and go into 4 different dungeons just so they can claim all the loot for themselves; they don't set out with a cleric (healer/reviver), mage (aoe damage / control), fighter (single target damage / tank), ranger (ranged damage / control) all heading into different dungeon to be more 'efficient' with the looting and expect to do exactly as well on their own as they would together. Multiplayer in games is designed around completely different factors, about having a party that is more stable to bad situations, does things more reliably, can coordinate across multiple tasks, can take on singular harder tasks together than they can alone, has more versatility to handle a wider variety of tasks, can have higher specializations, etc., as well as the numerous other benefits of building connections outside of just one specific run. While a group does get more items as a side effect of multiplayer, it is about all these other benefits while still getting 'enough' items for everyone to have their fill, getting 'more' items is not the core design focus of multiplayer gaming.

90% of games being locked 1/4 rooms is a gross exaggeration. As of writing this post, in block1 I count:
12 ultimate rooms, 8 passworded, 6 of them are 1/4, 1 of those is a WoI where the others died, 1 of those was a room where someone was doing no quest just doing things in town (ep1) and then left after a few minutes, 1 is someone sitting in regular sub desert and in game for several hours already, 1 weather effects, 2 ttf ultimas. All other rooms have more than one person in them, and only 1 of those rooms is someone I think is possibly doing 2 clients on a run of lost master blaster.
so in total 3, maybe 4, of 12 ultimate rooms in block1 were solo hunting rooms.

To go on a tangent about events specifically here; I think some people are placing too much emphasis solely on the event items (clearly evidenced by what people are trying to value a Glide Divine v00 at; of all items that could be considered useful in any small way at all, it is by far the least useful one of all, to the point of it only helping in 2-3 extremely niche situations which never ever come up and not even helping by much, and it is also not that rare of an item, with several dozen having dropped in the event), which are post-endgame content, and on what other people are doing that they don't like. I've spent >70% of my time in this event helping other people get items, and I've still managed to get 1 of each item (other than blood sword) in just the FIRST week of the event, and not due to any kind of luck (I definitely had seen a greater number of monsters than their rate die with no drop before the drops happened). The event usually lasts at least a month (hopefully a full month just from now even to give everyone more than ample time). Some people have been unlucky so far at the start, (I hadn't gotten anything at all this far into event in previous years), but there is still plenty of time left, and if anyone does need some help on things, I, for one, will gladly offer it.

If one's goal in events is to hoard as many items as possible, far more than they'll ever need, perhaps solo gaming is their style; note: there's nothing inherently wrong with this, if that's how they have fun then they can do it all they want for fun. Other people might be trying to get items for their characters to actually use, and maybe a few extra to sell later on. Some people may just be trying to play the game and have fun. But regardless of what one's goal is, if one is trying to force a major redesign onto a game to suit themselves, perhaps they should just go find a game that is designed differently which suits them better.

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@Fyrewolf5

The game heavily favors solo over multiplayer when it comes to items according to math/game code. Most players are upset about this. Do you have any solutions to solve this problem? Please share.

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