Individual Drops (PSO2 Drop Style)

[Soly]

Currently this only affects monster and not box drops.
Maybe is that?

Edited June 26, 2016 by Soly

[malgadar]

Okay maybe that's what it is. I'll keep an eye on it. 

[Misombre]

Thank you for your hard work.

Finally some fresh air !

/dropstyle 1

[Virec]

10 hours ago, Midori said:

OK, so this new drop system solves the problem of calling dibs on items/item ninjas. That's nice and all but why would a capable player who understands math, play multiplayer in the first place? In order for us to take advantage of the item ninja problem being solved, multiplayer needs to be worth playing. Let's fix this!

 

 

We currently have two problems when it comes to items.

 

 

Problem: The item balance between solo and multiplayer is way off. Solo is far superior to multiplayer because you get more items in less time. In other words, if you want items, and you are capable of soloing, you will generally get items between 3x to 4x faster by soloing. If you have additional members in your party, regardless of which drop system you use, it means less items for you. With 4 players, on average, each player will only get 1/4 of the items, compared to solo. If you want items, and you are capable of soloing, there is basically no reason to play multiplayer.

 

 

Solution: Better item balance between solo and multiplayer. We need a drop system that will give each player their own item, and at a decent enough rate. The goal should be a game that favors multiplayer, or at least a game where you can find items at roughly the same rate regardless of how many players are in your party. Ideally, the DAR would remain the same no matter how many players are in the party, which would mean that the game actually slightly favors multiplayer. But if the idea of an online game favoring multiplayer is crazy for some strange reason, assuming that each additional party member will speed up the quest clear time slightly, a slight DAR reduction could make sense. If it takes 60 minutes to get item X solo, it should take 60 minutes or less to get item X with 4 players. Adjust the numbers as needed to get the best balance.

 

 

Problem: One person using multiple accounts to get items faster. This problem has always existed and will continue to exist regardless of how the new drop system works, but it could potentially be worse if we let players quad box with a multiplayer friendly drop system to get items faster. New accounts are free, you can run multiple clients on the same PC, and one controller will control every client. All of these reasons make it extremely easy to exploit the game and get items way faster than normal. I've solo'd with 6 accounts myself and I can get 90 Luck mats or 12 Glide Divines in 1 HH.

 

 

Solution: Restrict one person from using multiple accounts to get items faster. One way or another, this needs to happen. Maybe it can be done through software, by reducing the number of accounts allowed to connect at once from 6 to 1 or 2, or disable support for multiple clients on the same PC. Or we can just have a written rule that says something like "One person cannot use more than one (or maybe two) accounts at the same time to get items faster", which means players could still use multiple accounts for things like item transfers or visiting a different lobby. If we allow two accounts, people could still use it for things like section ID and buffs, but more importantly, there would be room in the party for other players, so true multiplayer would still be possible.

 

 

Personally speaking, until these problems are addressed, I will continue to solo with anywhere from 1 to 6 accounts, because that's the best way to play the game based on its own rules. I do this because I want to be strong/good at the game, not because I enjoy it. I actually prefer to play with other people, because multiplayer is much more fun and interesting to me. Please fix these problems so players like me can enjoy playing multiplayer and still feel like we are playing the game in an efficient way. Thank you.

Midori,

I just have to through this out there, that even if Ultima blocks multi logging, this will not stop multi-logging because there are other ways of logging into on various accounts at the same time.  

For example:

Scenario 1:  The user has multiple PC's.  This will allow the user to log on to a different account on each PC and set up dual NIC cards with a cross over cable so they can control both accounts through multiple PC's  with one controller.

Scenario 2:  The user sets up multiple Virtual settings with a DMZ exemption for PSOBB.  This will allow 1 user to host multiple instances of the game client at once and even if server side chooses to block multiple instances from the same user, the game client traffic will be hidden behind the router or end-users DMZ//Firewall which will permit the action to allow.  

Scenario 3:  The user installs the client on external device sourcing a different ISP source or network, similar to scenario 2 except the device will be external with one primary instance on the users main PC.   Basically what this means is the user will have a primary instance of PSOBB running from their main PC while other instances are running from a virtual source on a different network or from a different location.  

There are a few different scenarios in which I will not list because I am not hear to ruin the original idea of this topic.      Also I agree with you to an extent.   My suggestion is to set it up based on what type of drop system the user has selected.  So if the user disables DAR then multi-log would be fine, if enabled then multi-log would be restricted or blocked.     

Back on topic - Great work Soly, I really think this helps dramatically and I look forward to more upcoming changes.

 

[Misombre]

So Yskialuw and myself have done a little test.

Dropstyle : individual drops

Players : 2

Quest : Phantasmal World #4, first room only

Monsters : 5 (Ill Gill x1, Del Lily x1, Gibble x3)

ID : Redria

Indice : considering we are two peoples and there is five monsters, best luck would be to have 10 drops, worst luck would be to have none at all.

 

Drop number per run :

1) Three drops

2) Two drops

3) One drop

4) Two drops

5) Two drops (one of them is Soul Booster *_*)

6) Three drops

7) One drop

8) Three drops

9) Three drops

10) One drop

11) One drop

Average is 2 drops per run. Test done on 11 runs.

Mediane is also 2 : 1 1 1 1 2 [2] 2 3 3 3 3

Please consider that I have added both players drops. So basically, for each player, the average and mediane would be 1 drop per run (on this particular run which is first room of PW4).

This results doesn't mean much, do whatever you want with it. Later I'll do the same test with 'shared drops' and add some more value. Because let's be honest, 11 runs is nothing. But for what I could see, we kind never get 0 drop, but never get more than 3 either.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Misombre
Bad spoiler eat everything e_e

[Lemon]

Soly, this is amazing work.  Thank you for putting so much time and energy into making playing on this server a great experience.

This is kind of a weird complaint, but as of now there isn't enough stuff to look at.  It makes it somewhat boring. I'm finding that the items that I pick up most (non rares) are becoming exceedingly hard to find.  Admittedly I've only done 1 game with the system enabled, but during that game I only found 2 difluids during the 15 minutes playing vs the 7-8 I normally find.  Is there a way to limit this to rare drops?  Maybe add a 3rd random number after the ship determines it will be a rare instead of on all drops?  Or maybe check a list (so you include materials and grinders).

 

@Misombre

I love the idea, can't wait to see your results. (And congrats on the soul booster ^,.,^)

Edited June 26, 2016 by Lemon
Lost my marbles for a minute

[Fyrewolf5]

It's interesting to me that so many people do not like that the overall room chance of item is still exactly the same as it is no matter what mode you use. This is something that needs to be stressed, as much as you may want to look at a reduction and think the number sounds really low, you have to remember that for every monster you kill it gets 4 chances to pass the checks, and a possible item from each one. The overall room chances add up to be the same chance to get the items you are hunting for.

If you guys want easier item rates overall, then why not argue for easier item rates no matter what system is being used? If your issue of playing multiplayer with others isn't that you are scared of ninjas or cant decide who gets the drop, and only that you aren't getting enough item drops to satisfy yourself with 'enough' stuff so that you feel comfortable helping others get their 'enough' stuff, then all that matters is easier rates.

I'm all for hearing arguments about why both event items and non-event items need easier rates on some of their drops. 

[Midori]

@Virec

Just because some of the ideas I suggested to restrict multi account abuse aren't 100% guaranteed to stop any and all multi account abuse, doesn't mean they can't make a difference in reducing the problem, or that we should give up on the idea altogether. Like I said before, currently it is far too easy to use and control 6 accounts at once. If players had to use 6 PCs and go out of their way to configure a single controller to work for all PCs at once, some people would be deterred by those hurdles and give up on the idea, myself included.

Either way, let's continue to work on fixing problems and improving the game. The important thing is that we agree that one person exploiting item drops with multi accounts is a problem, and we share the desire to reduce the problem.

[dmoney1969]

6 minutes ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

It's interesting to me that so many people do not like that the overall room chance of item is still exactly the same as it is no matter what mode you use. This is something that needs to be stressed, as much as you may want to look at a reduction and think the number sounds really low, you have to remember that for every monster you kill it gets 4 chances to pass the checks, and a possible item from each one. The overall room chances add up to be the same chance to get the items you are hunting for.

If you guys want easier item rates overall, then why not argue for easier item rates no matter what system is being used? If your issue of playing multiplayer with others isn't that you are scared of ninjas or cant decide who gets the drop, and only that you aren't getting enough item drops to satisfy yourself with 'enough' stuff so that you feel comfortable helping others get their 'enough' stuff, then all that matters is easier rates.

I'm all for hearing arguments about why both event items and non-event items need easier rates on some of their drops. 

Gets my popcorn out.....this should be entertaining

[Midori]

8 minutes ago, Fyrewolf5 said:

It's interesting to me that so many people do not like that the overall room chance of item is still exactly the same as it is no matter what mode you use. This is something that needs to be stressed, as much as you may want to look at a reduction and think the number sounds really low, you have to remember that for every monster you kill it gets 4 chances to pass the checks, and a possible item from each one. The overall room chances add up to be the same chance to get the items you are hunting for.

If you guys want easier item rates overall, then why not argue for easier item rates no matter what system is being used? If your issue of playing multiplayer with others isn't that you are scared of ninjas or cant decide who gets the drop, and only that you aren't getting enough item drops to satisfy yourself with 'enough' stuff so that you feel comfortable helping others get their 'enough' stuff, then all that matters is easier rates.

I'm all for hearing arguments about why both event items and non-event items need easier rates on some of their drops. 

You are comparing multiplayer to multiplayer. Everyone else is comparing solo to multiplayer. There is an important difference. We don't want items to drop like candy. We want to be able to find items from multiplayer at the same rate or slightly better than we can find items from solo.

Again to clarify, we are comparing item drops between solo and multiplayer. If it takes us 60 minutes to find item X solo, we think it should take us around 60 minutes or less to find item X from multiplayer. If you want to contribute to this discussion, it would be helpful if you understand the topic at hand. Thanks.

[Larva]

It's what I been saying since the begging.

Users are more interested in having easier drop, more rares boxes, than actually the idea of been safe from the ninja turtle of the shadows.

Midori and all her arguments, only thing that I see is

"""make drops easy.. it's a multiplayer game but I like to solo with my 6 accounts.....multiplayer"""

 

I did said it. The system will be implemented but the dar rate will have to be reduce. And yes the current number of the DAR as soly said are not final and we will try to balance as best we can. But again it won't be as shared drop ever; don't think I have to explain why.

 

 

[Midori]

Larva, please go back and read my posts here. Either I didn't do a good enough job explaining it or you didn't understand. If you need me to clarify something better afterward, I will do it.

[Misombre]

@Larva

About humans being humans and players being players : you can't really reproach them, can you ? =D

 

1 hour ago, Midori said:

We want to be able to find items from multiplayer at the same rate or slightly better than we can find items from solo.

If it takes us 60 minutes to find item X solo, we think it should take us around 60 minutes or less to find item X from multiplayer.

I kind of agree with that point. But I would be a little more loose and say : "If it takes me 60 minutes to find something, I don't care if it takes me 50 or 70 minutes to find it. A little more or less is nothing and no one care (except complainers with very high complaining power ^^)."

What, I think, we really don't want, is to have to spend around 2 hours to find something in multiplayer, while we could find it in 30 minutes alone. The gap is too big.

On that I agree 100 %, and come on ! anyone being honest here would say the same. If after playing for a while under the new dropstyle we find out that it takes much much longer to find something. We will just stop using it and cast /dropstyle 0

[Berrymilk]

and you all wonder why Larva has trouble allowing any changes to be made to the game. Lol... :>

 

  Ask for a simple balance without 5 pages of salty tears please.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Berrymilk

[Cyane]

How about all drops 1/1