Riot- Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Chuk already developed an app to generate the HTML to show the exact drop rates of every enemy and every section ID. I'm getting a little frustrated at blind hunts for event. Chuk new Drop Chart Tool We used this new drop table last summer for Cent/Battle , it would be nice to be able to play with right id's, so people are not hunting with wrong IDs and wasting time and effort to find such "items". I just think it would be fair for players to have the knowledge of what they are hunting and the rates. Especially when all it takes is one click to generate the new drop tables.(Thank Chuk =D) Please let me know your thought and vote in the Poll. Español Chuk ya desarrolló una aplicación para generar el HTML que muestra las tasas de caída (drop rates) exactas de cada enemigo y de cada sección ID. Me estoy frustrando un poco de buscar a ciegas en los eventos. Nueva herramienta de drops de Chuk: eomd.png Usamos esta nueva tabla de drops el veranos pasado para el Cent/Battle , sería estupendo poder jugar con las id's correctas, así la gente no cazaría items con las IDs erróneas, ni gastaría tiempo, ni esfuerzo buscando items que no valgan la pena. Sólo pienso que sería bueno para los jugadores tener conocimiento de qué es lo es están buscando y de los respectivos drops. Especialmente, cuando sólo toma un click ver la nueva tabla de drops.(Gracias, Chuk =D) Por favor hazme saber tú qué piensas y vota en la urna. Edited January 16, 2014 by Riot- 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squish Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Hey, Awesome topic. I shall be the devil's advocate in this case. In my honest opinion, I don't agree fully with with the YES vote, knowing everything about the game, takes away the fun out of it; it's like knowing the ending to a story, you wouldn't read it. Monotonous hunting is monotonous and knowing the exact rate of the drop is just going to frustrate you more. The drop for MS was fabled to be around 1% doing 300+ runs not only frustrated me at my bad luck but also ruined POD for me (statistically should've had 3). The good things by default shouldn't be easy to get; you know that going in. (We all know though that the rate is placed on every new room, as in the 1/100 is every new room not a cumulative effect or rather that's what's believed). However the feeling you get when you get the item is = priceless. I do agree though, the IDs need to be given, especially with a time constricted event such as the PGF event. It was stated to end the first week of January not giving enough time to try and test every ID with an unknown drop rate. In conclusion, I would like to know the exact IDs rather than the drop rates and both just wouldn't be fun. So couldn't say YES wholly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evie Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 I agree with Squish, knowing the ID's would at least serve to be useful to an extent. Most of us here are busy with school or work and the time we do dedicate to playing is limited. Therefore knowing that we are at least using a correct ID for an item reassures us that we aren't wasting our efforts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajex Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 Well... Ultima staff opinion... If real drop rates are posted, there is a lot less back and forth with users on whether or not something is correct. Saith, for example, wondered if a drop for dorphon was wrong. My best suggestion was to wait and see if it was correct after the event. As of this moment, it's visible in the live droptable (which has been updated). If there really is a mistake, we can quickly fix it. Real drop rates eliminate a lot of confusion by the players and eliminate a lot of questions to staff. The "only" issue I can see with doing this is when we had a weapon that wasn't supposed to drop (priceless item) in a previous event which was in the very hard forest by a common enemy. Accurate drop charts can be exploited if there are mistakes. However these mistakes are there regardless, and it makes it easier for us to fix them if they are visible to all of the staff. If, for example, we could show that things like kroe's sweater were not dropping, it could have been fixed a lot sooner to allow players time to hunt it. Waiting for user reports to fix the issue is far less efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolective Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 It seems as though the consensus is that IDs would be nice to know, and I agree, IDs would be good, but we don't want rates. That keeps some mystery in it. Are you getting really lucky on the Kroe's Sweater drop, or is it just easy to get? That leaves some fun mystery in it and still keeps the players talking to each other about it. I don't want to blindly hunt Daisy Chain and realize after 15 runs that my ID doesn't get it. That more so makes the players feel like it's been a waste of time more than anything, and makes them doubt if ANY of their IDs can get it. That leaves a lot more negativity than happiness in the equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frost506 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 If anything, just give us the drop rates on the big items (PGF and DF shield). Anything else drops commonly enough during HH and even during regular hunting where it doesn't matter if we're given the rates, but having less than a dozen PGFs drop during this event makes a lot of us wonder just what the rates are and if they're fixed to be <1% drop rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot- Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 look at current drop table for pgf rates frost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrewolf5 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 (edited) Well... Ultima staff opinion... If real drop rates are posted, there is a lot less back and forth with users on whether or not something is correct. Saith, for example, wondered if a drop for dorphon was wrong. My best suggestion was to wait and see if it was correct after the event. As of this moment, it's visible in the live droptable (which has been updated). If there really is a mistake, we can quickly fix it. Real drop rates eliminate a lot of confusion by the players and eliminate a lot of questions to staff. The "only" issue I can see with doing this is when we had a weapon that wasn't supposed to drop (priceless item) in a previous event which was in the very hard forest by a common enemy. Accurate drop charts can be exploited if there are mistakes. However these mistakes are there regardless, and it makes it easier for us to fix them if they are visible to all of the staff. If, for example, we could show that things like kroe's sweater were not dropping, it could have been fixed a lot sooner to allow players time to hunt it. Waiting for user reports to fix the issue is far less efficient. Well to be fair when I reported that one drop I did kill more than enough to be suspicious of the rate, and the other reported drop was clearly wrong. Counting the # of dorphons I killed (which was actually probably 25-26, I lowballed it in my post a bit. 1 extra eclair in the ma4dmd runs and either 4 or 5 eclairs in max c), there is at best a 0.75% chance of no drop. If it wasn't <1% - .5%(if I wasn't been lazy) I wouldn't have been confident in saying that maybe it should be checked out. I also wouldn't mind if it was just ids and no rates though, but I personally do like rates, even if the human brain is so hellbent on misinterpreting it that 99% of people won't actually understand how many runs it really means (a whole lot more than the rate to be sure of a drop). Edited January 16, 2014 by Fyrewolf5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frost506 Posted January 15, 2014 Share Posted January 15, 2014 look at current drop table for pgf rates frost 1/384? Well, that explains a lot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nessly Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Give us all more control. Provide IDs AND rates especially during events when the time is so limited. If certain users don't want to see rates, they don't have to look at them. It can be as simple as providing two charts (1 w/ rates and 1 w/o) If the rate is so small, I don't want to spend my time doing something less enjoyable like spamming a particular mission compared to a more enjoyable activity like helping friends in other difficulties or doing random missions. Edited January 16, 2014 by Nessly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Español Chuk ya desarrolló una aplicación para generar el HTML que muestra las tasas de caída (drop rates) exactas de cada enemigo y de cada sección ID. Me estoy frustrando un poco de buscar a ciegas en los eventos. Nueva herramienta de drops de Chuk: Usamos esta nueva tabla de drops el veranos pasado para el Cent/Battle , sería estupendo poder jugar con las id's correctas, así la gente no cazaría items con las IDs erróneas, ni gastaría tiempo, ni esfuerzo buscando items que no valgan la pena. Sólo pienso que sería bueno para los jugadores tener conocimiento de qué es lo es están buscando y de los respectivos drops. Especialmente, cuando sólo toma un click ver la nueva tabla de drops.(Gracias, Chuk =D) Por favor hazme saber tú qué piensas y vota en la urna. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 (edited) Chuk already developed an app to generate the HTML to show the exact drop rates of every enemy and every section ID. I'm getting a little frustrated at blind hunts for event. Chuk new Drop Chart Tool We used this new drop table last summer for Cent/Battle , it would be nice to be able to play with right id's, so people are not hunting with wrong IDs and wasting time and effort to find such "items". I just think it would be fair for players to have the knowledge of what they are hunting and the rates. Especially when all it takes is one click to generate the new drop tables.(Thank Chuk =D) Please let me know your thought and vote in the Poll. Are you like mentally retarded or something? http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/6383-droptable-for-ultima/ Also if you're going to make a poll for a choice, don't make a loaded question that makes one answer sound bad. More downvotes please, I'm right though. Events are events, the admin or staff can choose to surpise users if they please, they also tend to be temporary and the default drops return after, thus making updating the full table on the website a hassle. Edited January 16, 2014 by Lee 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squish Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well... Ultima staff opinion... If real drop rates are posted, there is a lot less back and forth with users on whether or not something is correct. Saith, for example, wondered if a drop for dorphon was wrong. My best suggestion was to wait and see if it was correct after the event. As of this moment, it's visible in the live droptable (which has been updated). If there really is a mistake, we can quickly fix it. Real drop rates eliminate a lot of confusion by the players and eliminate a lot of questions to staff. The "only" issue I can see with doing this is when we had a weapon that wasn't supposed to drop (priceless item) in a previous event which was in the very hard forest by a common enemy. Accurate drop charts can be exploited if there are mistakes. However these mistakes are there regardless, and it makes it easier for us to fix them if they are visible to all of the staff. If, for example, we could show that things like kroe's sweater were not dropping, it could have been fixed a lot sooner to allow players time to hunt it. Waiting for user reports to fix the issue is far less efficient. I think Riot was talking about the Event drops, rather than the regular drops. With that statement; In my opinion, the drop rates of the items that can be obtained all year round (except when substituted by an Event Item) should be given, as they are stable and tested somewhat. Event items are a temporary thing, so by that criteria IDs should be given; In addition with items like PGF, STA people are still going to attempt for it initially, whether or not they get bored of it is up to their own personal drive to obtain it, having the drop rates won't really change that. Might make people ask specifically, on what the drop rates are, or ask if they can be lowered. In addition lots of people might not know how they are calculated, terms like DAR are not well known. In essence questions will still be asked. Again this is my own personal opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frost506 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Are you like mentally retarded or something? http://www.phantasystaronline.net/forum/index.php?/topic/6383-droptable-for-ultima/ Also if you're going to make a poll for a choice, don't make a loaded question that makes one answer sound bad. More downvotes please, I'm right though. Events are events, the admin or staff can choose to surpise users if they please, they also tend to be temporary and the default drops return after, thus making updating the full table on the website a hassle. There's a term for this, I think it's diarrhea of the mouth? While there should've been 3 options (yes/no/IDs only) everything else is kinda bullshit. We could always pick and pull the items and make it a separate page on the drop table (like Forest Offensive/BPD/etc.) for players to view at their leisure along with the usual event post 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajex Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I think Riot was talking about the Event drops, rather than the regular drops. The example I listed above was Blood Sword, which is an event drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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